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 Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?

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PostSubject: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Fri 22 Jan 2010, 11:30 pm

At approximately 50 minutes into an audio interview with Walter Bowart, the interviewer briefly mentions how Jim Jones used the Mendocino State Mental Hospital in Ukiah, California for cult recruitment, as a "test center" as well as a staff training ground, with all of the hospitals test subjects ultimately turned over to the People's Temple.

Link to Audio Interview of Water Bowart (MP3 download):
http://bit.ly/7hZf1q

I have also been told that Jones was given children as wards of the court, mental patients, elderly and destitute people in Ukiah and in San Francisco with the complicity of courts and state institutions. Jones confiscated their incomes and savings and had complete control over them. These people were then forced to go to People's Temple in Guyana. The Black adults arrived bound and gagged at the airport on the Pan Am planes and were never seen outside the compound after that, although they were the majority of the population of Jonestown and the dead.

This sort of access would require high level government collaboration.


Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?
by Michael Meiers (1988)
http://www.amazon.com/Was-Jonestown-CIA-Medical-Experiment/dp/0889460132/

A work of investigative journalism that presents the theory that the
Central Intelligence Agency employed the Reverend Jim Jones to
administer a pharmaceutical field test in mind control and ethnic
weaponry to a large test group, namely the membership of the Peoples
Temple. The text proposes that Dr. Laurence Layton (former Chief of the
U.S. Army's Chemical and Biological Warfare Division) cultured the AIDS
virus to be tested and deployed in a CIA-backed experiment in
Jonestown, Guyana.



I'll post more as I have time.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Sat 23 Jan 2010, 10:35 pm

IP wrote:
At approximately 50 minutes into an audio interview with Walter Bowart, the interviewer briefly mentions how Jim Jones used the Mendocino State Mental Hospital in Ukiah, California for cult recruitment, as a "test center" as well as a staff training ground, with all of the hospitals test subjects ultimately turned over to the People's Temple.

Link to Audio Interview of Water Bowart (MP3 download):
http://bit.ly/7hZf1q

I have also been told that Jones was given children as wards of the court, mental patients, elderly and destitute people in Ukiah and in San Francisco with the complicity of courts and state institutions. Jones confiscated their incomes and savings and had complete control over them. These people were then forced to go to People's Temple in Guyana. The Black adults arrived bound and gagged at the airport on the Pan Am planes and were never seen outside the compound after that, although they were the majority of the population of Jonestown and the dead.

This sort of access would require high level government collaboration.


Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?
by Michael Meiers (1988)
http://www.amazon.com/Was-Jonestown-CIA-Medical-Experiment/dp/0889460132/

A work of investigative journalism that presents the theory that the
Central Intelligence Agency employed the Reverend Jim Jones to
administer a pharmaceutical field test in mind control and ethnic
weaponry to a large test group, namely the membership of the Peoples
Temple. The text proposes that Dr. Laurence Layton (former Chief of the
U.S. Army's Chemical and Biological Warfare Division) cultured the AIDS
virus to be tested and deployed in a CIA-backed experiment in
Jonestown, Guyana.



I'll post more as I have time.

Do we have any information about why Jim Jones killed himself also? I'm thinking he may have been suffering severe remorse, after the fact.. Very sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Sun 24 Jan 2010, 12:48 am

ScoutsHonor wrote:
Do we have any information about why Jim Jones killed himself also? I'm thinking he may have been suffering severe remorse, after the fact.. Very sad.
Engineered to self desstruct, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Sun 24 Jan 2010, 2:49 am

I've read a bunch of Michael Meiers June's Jonestown piece and am disgusted. A smooth operation with tacit approval from all levels of government. WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING TO US TODAY. It chills me to my core.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Sun 24 Jan 2010, 4:46 pm

ramallamamama wrote:
I've read a bunch of Michael Meiers June's Jonestown piece and am disgusted. A smooth operation with tacit approval from all levels of government. WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING TO US TODAY. It chills me to my core.
What piece are you referring to?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Sun 24 Jan 2010, 5:06 pm

IP wrote:
ScoutsHonor wrote:
Do we have any information about why Jim Jones killed himself also? I'm thinking he may have been suffering severe remorse, after the fact.. Very sad.
Engineered to self desstruct, I suppose.

Yeah, you're probably right.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Sun 24 Jan 2010, 7:51 pm

Ronne wrote:
ramallamamama wrote:
I've read a bunch of Michael Meiers June's Jonestown piece and am disgusted. A smooth operation with tacit approval from all levels of government. WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING TO US TODAY. It chills me to my core.
What piece are you referring to?

http://www.fonebone.net/Jonestown/
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 25 Jan 2010, 2:51 pm

Some more background...

Many Jonestown related government files have been released from State Department, CIA and other agencies. There is a Jonestown Report that has put some of them online.

Richard Dwyer of the CIA, working for the Embassy is a prime suspect who was a the Jonestown camp and then at the Port Kaituma airport that day. The CIA and the Embassy were working in collusion with the corrupt government of Guyana led by Forbes Burnham, who had been put into power by a CIA orchestrated coup of the previous socialist and democratic leader Cheddi Jegen. Burnham, on the urging of the Noonan and Luckhoo families (who had been at this since the early 1900s, Luckhoo was the lawyer for Jones in Guyana) as well as international corporations had been pushing to move labor back into the Orinoco River valley area where Jonestown was located. They cut the deals with Jones and others over the years since there is gold, uranium, bauxite, copper and other rare minerals there in great quantity.

The whole dock and airport infrastructure around Matthew's Ridge was put in place in the 50s by Union Carbide for a bauxite mine there, and it was the Five Points area around Jonestown that had supplied a massive amount of gold mining for the Caribbe native "porkers". One of the chemicals necessary to clean gold is cyanide, which explains why Jones ordered it in large quantities. It was not the cause of death at Jonestown.

A nearby encampment claimed to hold 8,000 African-Americans, led by Rabbi Immanuel Israel (David Hill), the mentor of Marcus Wayne Chennault (who killed Dr. King's mother) and Donald DeFreeze (SLA leader, police informant for LAPD) in Cleveland, Ohio before he absconded to Guyana. Dominica hurricane survivors were moved to that area. Blacks from the UK were scheduled for transfer there as well.

After Jonestown the Laotian Hmong people, who ran the opium for the CIA in S.E. Asia for years were transplanted there briefly. Burnham created a National Service program and tried to require Guyanese youth to work in the jungles around Matthew's Ridge. Venezuela has long contested ownership of the Orinoco Valley riches as well, and Rockefeller bought and ran huge farms at the border of the two countries. So, both the CIA via the US Embassy and the Burnham government were complicit with this forced, programmed labor experiment at Jonestown and with pulling the plug on it.

Burnham's wife and other officials flew in the day of the massacre and left with $2 million which they put into the government treasury. The Georgetown Guyana press called it "Templegate".

These officials were also complicit in the murder of Congressman Ryan, and the Guyanese Defense Force (GDF) troops on the field did nothing to stop the shootings by Jones's trained assassination squat at Port Kaituma.

The GDF also worked with the Green Beret and British Black Watch troops over the next five days to kill those trying to escape Jonestown into the jungle. The GDF officers had training from CIA torture specialist Dan Mitrione, a boyhood friend of Jim Jones. The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology failed to do simple fluid autopsies on site that could have determined the actual cause of death. The Green Berets were part of additional killings for days.

The US Army forces sent in did mass burials and flew bodies out very slowly to Dover AFB in New Jersey, isolating the dead from their family members, before cremating them. This was destruction of evidence and intentional.

Jones bragged of ties to the US Embassy in Brazil when he helped with a coup there, his friend Mitrione was working with the CIA in Minas Girais at the time. Jones claimed also to be with Naval Intelligence to neighbors who saw Embassy cars give him rides and deliver his groceries.

Jones came back with $100.000 in his pocket to found the Ukiah, CA camp he called Happy Havens, with armed guards and dogs. Government agencies and courts in California provided him with people from mental institutions, orphanages and homes for the elderly at Ukiah. The Moscone administration provided him with people from the welfare rolls once he got to San Francisco.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 25 Jan 2010, 3:08 pm

Everyone is connected, just look:

Robert Pastor, Carter Election Commission & Jonestown
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/72/80642.html

Robert Pastor was Executive Director of the Carter-Baker Commission to
investigate the 2004 US Presidential election. Prior to this, Pastor
was the NSC's staff coordinator for Latin American under Carter during
the Jonestown mass "suicide" ....

"The direct orders to cover up the cause of death came from the top
levels of the American government. Zbigniew Brezezinsky delegated to
Robert Pastor, and he in turn ordered Lt. Col. Gordon Sumner to strip
the bodies of identity."

Children of Jonestown, pp. 196-7



The order to remove the tags was issued by Robert Pastor, the National
Security Council's staff coordinator for Latin American and Caribbean
affairs. Asked about this, Pastor denies that he gave such an order,
adding that it would have been senseless for him to have done so.
He's right, of course, but the mystery remains: why were the tags
removed?

"Cult of Death," 12/4/78, Newsweek
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 25 Jan 2010, 3:19 pm

Discussion of Jonestown starts around 50 minutes into the Evidence of Revision documentary, part 5



Interviewee says that Chairman of John Birch Society showed up at Jim Jones events. What a crock! It's all just one big freaking scam, just sliced and diced to make it look like there are different factions.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 25 Jan 2010, 4:15 pm

So, now having watched part 5 of the documentary "Evidence of Revision," it is apparent to me that Jonestown was much more than a Mind Control Experiment or a point of distribution for the AIDS virus, for it seems Jonestown was a case study for many of their Brave New World techniques we're seeing launched into society at large.

From the documentary, I understand that:
- Jonestown was wired with loud speakers
- Jones broadcast his talks on the loud speakers around the clock
- Screaming children broadcast on loud speaker system
- Armed guards to oversee labor
- Participants didn't know who to trust
- Insidious reporting system used to identify disloyal participants
- Electro shock treatments to manage behavior

These are all techniques that can be traced back to Nazi scientists, and earlier. If Jones was implementing these techniques, it was done under direction of intelligence services, who would have been closely monitoring the experiment before it was finally shut it down and the mop-up crew arrived, under direction of Brzezinski's right hand man, Robert Pastor.

I think I get the picture, and now understand why documentaries were allowed to be released discussing mind control, for mind control was only a small part of the much bigger picture. We are not supposed to see the larger implications of Jonestown.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 11:48 am

In response to Bert G's request that I comment on this thread, I do think that Jonestown was part of the "social engineering" program that the CIA participates in and I suppose goes back to ancient times. You can see clear methods of psychological manipulation of the public in ancient Rome, the ancient Mayan polity, and others. The wealthy and powerful elite of every civilization work to refine the techniques of control century after century. It appears they have learned much over time.

I have suspected for some time that the central organizing principle of civilization itself is slavery. Just look at the social strata of all high civilizations throughout history. There is always a small ruling elite, a larger managing class, and a huge laboring class. Call the lower class wage-slaves if you like. Those of us in the lower portion of any social hierarchy basically work our entire lives away for subsistence wages to the benefit of those above. Remember, the word civilization etymologically means culture of cities, and cities are always structured in this way.

The apparent coalescence of wealth and power into an increasingly apparent planet sized elite class (remember, class is merely short for classification) seems just a natural evolution of human civilization at this point if human evolution.

As to the comments about Jone's supposed suicide, there is no evidence he killed himself. In fact another Jonestown tape surfaced in recent years suggesting that he was in fact alive the next day along with several other camp administrators. I believe he was murdered. He had served his purpose and was clearly becoming unbalanced.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 3:37 pm

This subject matter sickens me to my core.

I've yet to follow up on the info below, but will soon. A case of muddying the waters?

From a FB friend.

Quote :
... are you aware of P.D. Beter's Jonestown report as a cover story for an operation to get rid of a missile base in Guyana? See audioletter no. 40: <http://peterdavidbeter.com/docs/all/dbaltpcs.html>

Trying to get to the bottom of that mass-murder incident is difficult given the distance and lack of witnesses. But Beter did have very high-... See Morelevel insider contacts and some of his information was confirmed by other events. The campaign to discredit him and continue to sell the official story greatly resembles the media's constant selling of the mostly-discredited 9/11 official yarn.

Look up 9/11-commission chief counsel John Farmer's book "The Ground Truth" in which he details systematic perjury by gov't officials. See review discussing its implications by former marine Gordon Duff in Veterans Today. (Link not working from here; search by keywords, names of authors.)


Last edited by ramallamamama on Tue 26 Jan 2010, 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 4:12 pm

Conspiratus wrote:
As to the comments about Jone's supposed suicide, there is no evidence he killed himself. In fact another Jonestown tape surfaced in recent years suggesting that he was in fact alive the next day along with several other camp administrators. I believe he was murdered. He had served his purpose and was clearly becoming unbalanced.
How substantial is the evidence that Jones is dead?

These guys don't kill their trusted assets, they just fake their deaths, especially if the asset still has material value.

It's hard to come-by really skilled and trusted psychopaths at the level of Jones, I can't believe they'd be so quick to lose someone of that value.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 8:05 pm

What, Dr. Bourne was director of primate research for MKULTRA, and Jim Jones sold primates door-to-door before he started the People's Temple, and we have a recent Hollywood movie about mind-controlled assassins called The Bourne Identity.

Is this some kind of sick joke?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 8:30 pm

You can actually identify Jone's bloated corpse face up among the bodies if you want to look. Cause of death was listed as a gunshot to the head.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 2:05 pm

Conspiratus wrote:
I do think that Jonestown was part of the "social engineering" program that the CIA participates in


This is not really clear in any of the material out there. One has to piece it together. Or, am I missing something?

Bert.G wrote:
What, Dr. Bourne was director of primate research for MKULTRA, and Jim Jones sold primates door-to-door before he started the People's Temple, and we have a recent Hollywood movie about mind-controlled assassins called The Bourne Identity.

Is this some kind of sick joke?

Do we know why Jones (or whatever his name is) was selling primates door to door?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 5:13 pm

The monkey selling has always seemed really bizarre to me. I mean, where do you buy monkeys wholesale to resell for profit? Was he getting them from some place that was using them for research? Or is it even true? How many people would buy a monkey from a door to door salesman anyway? Got a feeling there's more to it than we've been told.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 7:00 pm

Bert.G wrote:
Conspiratus wrote:

I do think that Jonestown was part of the "social engineering" program that the CIA participates in

This is not really clear in any of the material out there. One has to piece it together. Or, am I missing something?

So, when I see an issue such as this, where the obvious pieces of the puzzle are not properly assembled, or assembled in the context, or the obvious conclusions not drawn from the puzzle pieces, I am usually likely to conclude that this is deliberate vectoring on the part of the disseminators of the information.

Is this what you concluded as well? Or, were there other reasons that can explain the vectoring, or incomplete conclusions, that were being drawn in many of the works that were released on Jonestown?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:13 pm

When I refer to "social engineering" I usually mean the overall "culture creation" by elite classes through history. In our world, I believe that this is the main purpose of all media. Robert McChesney's Harvard study of the corporate takeover of mass media for the purpose of opinion cultivation starting with radio in the 20's gives evidence of this. I believe all organized religion functions for this purpose, the way mythology did in ancient times. For instance, Christianity imprints within followers a subservient attitude toward elite "authority" by its ideology of the follower as child worshipping the "father" and fearing him and calling him "lord" and "king", etc. As Alan Watts used to say, Christians say they support democracy, but they worship a monarchy. Elites are commonly monarchist. That's why the so-called imperial presidency has continued to evolve here in the U.S. Public education is structured as a great "Skinner box" using classic behavior modification techniques to produce the human herd product. John Taylor Gato is a good source on this. It all comes together in creating local peer pressure on you to stay in the box.

Since I see much of culture as "engineered", you can see why I would see Jonestown as fitting in with the State's standard operating procedure. I can't give any references on this. It's just how I see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 12:09 am

i agree with your definitions and assessment in this previous post. My point was to point out that no one seems to clearly and succincly and accurate connect all of the dots so that an average viewer can clearly understand the significance of all of these events (ie Jonestown, Sirhan Sirhan, Hinckley, serial murders, etc.) all come together. It's all related. It's a master plan, and these are merely specific projects toward the master plans goal.

There are two other points of discussion that you may be of interest.

The first is a thread, located here, that starts a discussion on Theodor Adorno and his work on using culture to create a dialectic of mass englightenment. Basically, the more enlightened the populace, the more endoctrinated they become. Adorno really showed how the massification of culture could be leveraged to create strong "peer pressure," as you say, and the "precession of simulacrua," as Jean Baudrillard would say.

The second is a book written by IF Stone on the Trial of Socrates, which expose Socrates and Plato as aristocratic front men who attempted to destory Athenian Democracy, run in large part by commoners. What this book taught me is that this struggle between self-rule and aristocratic-rule has indeed been underway for quite some time, and many of the techniques that we witness today are similar to the techniques employed then. Unfortunately, not many appreciate this history, or even know about it.

PS. Somewhere I have a copy of the Carnegie 1928 report to take-over the US education system. It was a 5-year study costing $400K at the time. It's brief, very high level and steeped in double speak, but there are certainly many things one can take-away from that doc. I don't think Gatto has ever referred to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 11:49 am

Yes, I agree with you that no one connects all the dots, but I'm sure no one ever will. How can we illuminate the hidden when we are not part of the "in-group" that is doing the planning? We'll always be second guessing and speculating though our guessing may be educated. Many like David Icke, Alex Jones, Webster Tarplay, ad infinitum, are out there trying, each with their own perspective. I prefer to stick with generalities that I can well defend logically. Identifying specific agencies is tricky at best since they operate outside of our view. We got enough on Jonestown to identify it as "an operation". Similarly, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh's Rajneeshpuram in Oregon was almost certainly a similar operation which also was shut down for similar reasons though not with such horror. Interestingly, the daughter of congressman Leo Ryan who was killed at Jonestown was a "devotee" at Rajneeshpuram. There is a fascinating film on this entitled Fear is the Master put out by a conservative Christian group. They thought they were investigating "New Age" humanistic madness, but unknowingly had documented another MK operation, I believe.

I'm aware of I. F. Stone, of course, but am not familiar with the book The Trial of Socrates. His indictment of Plato and Socrates seems to resonate with a similar pronouncement on them as well as on Aristotle by Robert Pirsig in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, where he makes a good case that it was they and not the Sophists that were the corrupt deceivers ultimately leading Western Civilization away from idealizing "the good" and instead toward idealizing "the true" which apparently facilitated the modern descent into magnificent corruption.

The Adorno thread you point to has many interesting elements I could comment upon at length, not the least of which are my personal disagreement with the common uses of the terms "wisdom" and "enlightenment". I have yet to encounter or even hear of a wise or enlightened human, so I question the validity or meaning of those terms.

Second is Horkheimer's and Adorno's statement that reason has become irrational. This is absurd since the term"rational thought" is identical to the term "reason". Both describe "linguistic thought". Reason comes to us from the old French raison which means to resound or "repeat in sound", in other words to symbolize linguistically. Rational refers to rationing, here meaning "rationing reality" or using the so-called "knife of reason" to slice up reality into little bits, then assigning symbols to the bits and then mentally manipulating the symbols, most commonly as words and numbers. "Rationality" is utterly misunderstood today as it is regularly and improperly used as a synonym of sanity. It is no such thing. It literally denotes the way we think. We think in language. You know you have learned another language, for instance, when you begin to think in that language. The primary activity of most meditation techniques, for example, is to "stop the inner dialogue". This is the actual cessation of rational thought/reason. The cessation of linguistic thought suddenly allows for a clarity of awareness that is stunning. To be practiced in it is to literally transcend reason and as many mystics have said "to see clearly as if newly awakened". What this implies about reason, the so-called cornerstone of science and foundation stone of civilization itself is to say the least, rather troubling.

Sorry to go on about this, but I believe these misunderstandings are near the core of the great mistakes of our modern civilization. Of course there is much more I can say about this.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 01 Feb 2010, 3:49 am

Question: "no cyanide involved" ... this includes all of the deaths? Then how were these people killed? Were all shot by military personnel?

This is such a pervasive lie that even you have bought into it. It has led to the current phrase, "You drank the government kool-aid, man!"

Cyanide has a specific pathology. It is a cholinesterase inhibitor, blocking the neural messages from the brain to the muscles, both conscious and unconscious. However, it blocks them intermittently. Breath comes fast and then stops, on and off. Same for heartbeat. Muscles jerk and relax or spasm into locked positions. The mouth draws back into a death grin or rictus. Cyanide is one of the easiest causes of death to diagnose from visible inspection alone. Bodies have limbs in spasm and distorted positions, backs arched and the telltale sardonic grin. Find a single pictured body among the Jonestown dead showing such pathology, just one.

What Dr. Mootoo found was 80% of the 408 bodies he counted accurately around the compound, almost all women and children and all Black save for Jones, had an injection mark at the back of the left shoulder. He also found many bent injection needles, meaning forced injections. If there was Kool Aid, it was just that. The rest of the bodies had clearly been shot or strangled.

Mootoo brought his evidence to the Grand Jury convened at Matthew's Ridge in the wake of the Jonestown massacre. They ruled on the evidence that there were NO suicides at Jonestown, all were murdered.

Over the next few days, the 408 count grew to 780 and then to 916. The Army officials on site came up with five different lies to explain the growing number of dead, including bodies in piles, bodies on top of other bodies, and that the Guyanese can't count. The final lie was that they had forgotten to go to the other side of the open pavilion, where five days-in they found 500 more bodies.

There are no bodies on top of other bodies among the Jonestown dead. Most are face down in calm repose, in some cases in rows along blankets, with signs of being dragged into the area at the outer edges.

The original NY Times article reporting the mass death said 400 Dead, 700 Flee Into Jungle. Sadly, the 700 were surrounded by a combination of Guyanese Defense Forces (officers trained by Dan Mitrione), British Black Watch troops on "special maneuvers" and American Green Berets (600 sent, 200 involved in body cleanup).

They were shot over days and dragged back to camp. The vast majority of the dead were Black and women, elderly and children making up a large portion as well.

There were, by all reports and counts, 1,100 people living at Jonestown at the time of the massacre. Where are the others? They were mostly male and white and they moved on into other covert operations. They were the ones who did the guarding and killing during the mass murder.

The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology flew into the scene on the same day, November 18, 1979. They could have done a simple fluid autopsy to determine the cause of death. They also confiscated the extensive medical records being kept on the people there by Dr. Lawrence Schacht, showing the level of drugs they were already being forced to take. All the drugs of the MKULTA experiments on individuals were there in quantities for a mass mind-control experiment. Some of these would have shown up in a fluid autopsy as well.

The bodies had plastic wrist or ankle tags as well, helping Dr. Mootoo and survivor Odell Rhodes apply identification tags to the toes of each of the 408 dead. However, these were reportedly removed, along with the medical tags, by Robert Pastor (then US Army, now CIA) on orders from Alexander Haig and Zbigniew Brzezinski (see Kenneth Wooten, Children of Jonestown). They are visible in early photos, gone in the later ones.

The American College of Medical Examiners wrote an open letter to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology criticizing their lack of fluid autopsies before the bodies rotted and decomposed, making both identification and cause of death less discernible. The AFIP replied that they had "forgotten" to bring their medical bags! On a mission whose purpose was medical and autopsy examinations?

Mootoo came and addressed the College and talked to other forensic specialists. His conclusions were first reported in Reader's Digest in an article titled "The Doctors of Death". Imagine reading that all the people of Jonestown were killed, not suicides, in Reader's Digest in 1980! The body count mathematics told us that something was wrong with the story anyway and the news clippings prove this.

So, in answer to the original question, no, no cyanide, not in any body. Cause of death for many has never been determined.

The bodies were flown out slowly to Dover AFB in New Jersey, cremated and given a mass burial. Some lethal poison was injected into the first 400 but not with their consent, they resisted, and not cyanide. The rest were strangled and shot.

Jim Jones was shot in the head but the gun was found a great distance from him, so he did not do the shooting. In fact, the photos of that body do not show the tattoos on his chest visible in earlier ones, so Jones may have been killed earlier and replaced by a double.

The people were killed to prevent the reality of the Jonestown concentration labor camp, it's drugging and horrors and its experimentation to create a controlled slave labor population in the most mineral-rich valley on that continent in the jungle areas where the majority of the population would never agree to live. It was not the first nor the last population moved to Matthew's Ridge as a labor force. The Nunan and Luckhoo families had been trying since 1900 to move groups of people back into the area. The indigenous Caribbean people had gone back into the area to work gold mines. In 1860 a revivalist religion was begun among the Caribbean by a white minister named Smith, who led them up to Matthew's Ridge and reportedly eventually convinced 600 of them to commit suicide there. This is probably the original source of the CIA lie about Jonestown and almost surely a lie itself.


Quote :

The Black Hole of Guyana
The Untold Story of the Jonestown Massacre

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html

The ultimate victims of mind control at Jonestown are the American people. If we fail to look beyond the constructed images given us by the television and the press, then our consciousness is manipulated, just as well as the Jonestown victims' was. Facing nuclear annihilation, may see the current militarism of the Reagan policies, and military training itself, as the real "mass suicide cult." If the discrepancy between the truth of Jonestown and the official version can be so great, what other lies have we been told about major events?

History is precious. In a democracy, knowledge must be accessible for informed consent to function. Hiding or distorting history behind "national security" leaves the public as the final enemy of the government. Democratic process cannot operate on "need to know." Otherwise we live in the 1984 envisioned by Orwell's projections and we must heed his warning that those who control the past control the future.

The real tragedy of Jonestown is not only that it occurred, but that so few chose to ask themselves why or how, so few sought to find out the facts behind the bizarre tale used to explain away the death of more than 900 people, and that so many will continue to be blind to the grim reality of our intelligence agencies. In the long run, the truth will come out. Only our complicity in the deception continues to dishonor the dead.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 01 Feb 2010, 4:05 am

The following are additional excerpts taken directly from John Judge's article
http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html

Who Was Jim Jones?

In order to understand the strange events surrounding Jonestown, we must begin with a history of the people involved. The official story of a religious fanatic and his idealist followers doesn't make sense in light of the evidence of murders, armed killers and autopsy cover-ups. If it happened the way we were told, there should be no reason to try to hide the facts from the public, and full investigation into the deaths at Jonestown, and the murder of Leo Ryan would have been welcomed. What did happen is something else again.

Jim Jones grew up in Lynn, in southern Indiana. His father was an active member of the local Ku Klux Klan that infest that area.[77] His friends found him a little strange, and he was interested in preaching the Bible and religious rituals.[78] Perhaps more important was his boyhood friendship with Dan Mitrione, confirmed by local residents.[79] In the early 50s, Jones set out to be a religious minister, and was ordained at one point by a Christian denomination in Indianapolis.[80] It was during this period that he met and married his lifelong mate, Marceline.[81] He also had a small business selling monkeys, purchased from the research department at Indiana State University in Bloomington.[82]

A Bible-thumper and faith healer, Jones put on revivalist tent shows in the area, and worked close to Richmond, Indiana. Mitrione, his friend, worked as chief of police there, and kept him from being arrested or run out of town.[83] According to those close to him, he used wet chicken livers as evidence of "cancers" he was removing by "divine powers."[84] His landlady called him "a gangster who used a Bible instead of a gun."[85] His church followers included Charles Beikman, a Green Beret who was to stay with him to the end.[86] Beikman was later charged with the murders of several Temple members in Georgetown, following the massacre.[87]

Dan Mitrione, Jones' friend, moved on to the CIA-financed International Police Academy, where police were trained in counter-insurgency and torture techniques from around the world.[88] Jones, a poor, itinerant preacher, suddenly had money in 1961 for a trip to "minister" in Brazil, and he took his family with him.[89] By this time, he had "adopted" Beikman, and eight children, both Black and white.[90] His neighbors in Brazil distrusted him. He told them he worked with U.S. Navy Intelligence. His transportation and groceries were being provided by the U.S. Embassy as was the large house he lived in.[91] His son, Stephan, commented that he made regular trips to Belo Horizonte, site of the CIA headquarters in Brazil.[92] An American police advisor, working closely with the CIA at that point, Dan Mitrione was there as well.[93] Mitrione had risen in the ranks quickly, and was busy training foreign police in torture and assassination methods. He was later kidnapped by Tupermaro guerillas in Uruguay, interrogated and murdered.[94] Costa Gravas made a film about his death titled State of Siege.[95] Jones returned to the United States in 1963, with $10,000 in his pocket.[96] Recent articles indicate that Catholic clergy are complaining about CIA funding of other denominations for "ministry" in Brazil; perhaps Jones was an early example.[97]

With his new wealth, Jones was able to travel to California and establish the first People's Temple in Ukiah, California, in 1965. Guarded by dogs, electric fences and guard towers, he set up Happy Havens Rest Home.[98] Despite a lack of trained personnel, or proper licensing, Jones drew in many people at the camp. He had elderly, prisoners, people from psychiatric institutions, and 150 foster children, often transferred to care at Happy Havens by court orders.[99] He was contacted there by Christian missionaries from World Vision, an international evangelical order that had done espionage work for the CIA in Southeast Asia.[100] He met "influential" members of the community and was befriended by Walter Heady, the head of the local chapter of the John Birch Society.[101] He used the members of his "church" to organize local voting drives for Richard Nixon's election, and worked closely with the republican party.[102] He was even appointed chairman of the county grand jury.[103]

"The Messiah from Ukiah," as he was known then, met and recruited Timothy Stoen, a Stanford graduate and member of the city DA's office, and his wife Grace.[104] During this time, the Layton family, Terri Buford and George Phillip Blakey and other important members joined the Temple.[105] The camp "doctor," Larry Schacht, claims Jones got him off drugs and into medical school during this period.[106] These were not just street urchins. Buford's father was a Commander for the fleet at the Philadelphia Navy Base for years.[107] The Laytons were a well-heeled, aristocratic family. Dr. Layton donated at least a quarter-million dollars to Jones. His wife son and daughter were all members of the Temple.[108] George Blakey, who married Debbie Layton, was from a wealthy British family. He donated $60,000 to pay the lease on the 27,000-acre Guyana site in 1974.[109] Lisa Philips Layton had come to the U.S. from a rich Hamburg banking family in Germany.[110] Most of the top lieutenants around Jones were from wealthy, educated backgrounds, many with connections to the military or intelligence agencies. These were the people who would set up the bank accounts, complex legal actions, and financial records that put people under the Temple's control.[111]

Stoen was able to set up important contacts for Jones as Assistant DA in San Francisco.[112] Jones changed his image to that of a liberal.[113] He had spent time studying the preaching methods of Fr. Divine in Philadelphia, and attempted to use them in a manipulative way on the streets of San Francisco. Fr. Divine ran a religious and charitable operation among Philadelphia's poor Black community.[114] Jones was able to use his followers in an election once again, this time for Mayor Moscone. Moscone responded in 1976, putting Jones in charge of the city Housing Commission.[115] In addition, many of his key followers got jobs with the city Welfare Department and much of the recruitment to the Temple in San Francisco came from the ranks of these unemployed and dispossessed people.[116] Jones was introduced to many influential liberal and radical people there, and entertained or greeted people ranging from Roslyn Carter to Angela Davis.[117]

The period when Jones began the Temple there marked the end of an important political decade. Nixon's election had ushered in a domestic intelligence dead set against the movements for peace, civil rights and social justice. Names like COINTELPRO, CHAOS, and OPERATION GARDEN PLOT, or the HOUSTON PLAN made the news following in the wake of Watergate revelations.[118] Senator Ervin called the White House plans against dissent "fascistic."[119] These operations involved the highest levels of military and civilian intelligence and all levels of police agencies in a full-scale attempt to discredit, disrupt and destroy the movements that sprang up in the 1960s. There are indications that these plans, or the mood they created, led to the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, as unacceptable "Black Messiahs."[120]

One of the architects under then-Governor Reagan in California was now-Attorney General Edwin Meese. He coordinated "Operation Garden Plot" for military intelligence and all police operations and intelligence in a period that was plagued with violations of civil and constitutional rights.[121] Perhaps you recall the police attacks on People's Park, the murder of many Black Panthers and activists, the infiltration of the Free Speech Movement and antiwar activity, and the experimentation on prisoners at Vacaville, or the shooting of George Jackson.[122] Meese later bragged that this activity had damaged or destroyed the people he called "revolutionaries."[123] It was into this situation Jones came to usurp leadership.[124]

After his arrival in Ukiah, his methods were visible to those who took the time to investigate.[125] His armed guards wore black uniforms and leather jackboots. His approach was one of deception, and if that wore off, then manipulation and threats. Loyalty to his church included signing blank sheets of paper, later filled in with "confessions' and used for blackmail purposes, or to extort funds.[126] Yet the vast membership he was extorting often owned little, and he tried to milk them for everything, from personal funds to land deeds.[127] Illegal activities were regularly reported during this period, but either not investigated or unresolved. He clearly had the cooperation of local police. Years later, evidence would come out of charges of sexual solicitation, mysteriously dropped.[128]

Those who sought to leave were prevented and rebuked. Local journalist Kathy Hunter wrote in the Ukiah press about "Seven Mysterious Deaths" of the Temple members who had argued with Jones and attempted to leave. One of these was Maxine Swaney.[129] Jones openly hinted to other members that he had arranged for them to die, threatening a similar fate to others who would be disloyal.[130] Kathy Hunter later tried to visit Jonestown, only to be forcibly drugged by Temple guards, and deported to Georgetown.[131] She later charged that Mark Lane approached her, falsely identifying himself as a reporter for Esquire, rather than as an attorney for Jim Jones. He led her to believe he was seeking information on Jones for an exposé in the magazine, and asked to see her evidence.

The pattern was to continue in San Francisco. In addition, Jones required that members practice for the mysterious "White Night," a mass suicide ritual that would protect them from murder at the hands of their enemies.[132] Although the new Temple had no guards or fences to restrict members, few had other places to live, and many had given over all they owned to Jones. They felt trapped inside this community that preached love, but practiced hatred.[133]

Following press exposure, and a critical article in New West magazine, Jones became very agitated, and the number of suicide drills increased.[134] Complaints about mistreatment by current and ex-members began to appear in the media and reach the ears of congressional representatives. Sam Houston, an old friend of Leo Ryan, came to him with questions about the untimely death of his son following his departure from the Temple.[135] Later, Timothy and Grace Stoen would complain to Ryan about custody of their young son, who was living with Jones, and urge him to visit the commune.[136] Against advice of friends and staff members, Ryan decided to take a team of journalists to Guyana and seek the truth of the situation.[137] Some feel that Ryan's journey there was planned and expected, and used as a convenient excuse to set up his murder. Others feel that this unexpected violation of secrecy around Jonestown set off the spark that led to the mass murder. In either case, it marked the beginning of the end for Ryan and Jones.[138]

At one point, to show his powers, Jones arranged to be shot in the heart in front of the congregation. Dragged to a back room, apparently wounded and bleeding, he returned a moment later alive and well. While this may have been more of his stage antics to prompt believers' faith it may also have marked the end of Jim Jones.[139] For undisclosed reasons, Jones had and used "doubles."[140] This is very unusual for a religious leader, but quite common in intelligence operations.[141]

Even the death and identification of Jim Jones were peculiar. He was apparently shot by another person at the camp.[142] Photos of his body do not show identifying tattoos on his chest. The body and face are not clearly recognizable due to bloating and discoloration.[143] The FBI reportedly checked his fingerprints twice, a seemingly futile gesture since it is a precise operation. A more logical route would have been to check dental records.[144] Several researchers familiar with the case feel that the body may not have been Jones. Even if the person at the site was one of the "doubles," it does not mean Jones is still alive. He may have been killed at an earlier point.


What Was Jonestown?

According to one story, Jones was seeking a place on earth that would survive the effects of nuclear war, relying only on an article in Esquire magazine for his list.[145] The real reason for his locations in Brazil, California, Guyana and elsewhere deserve more scrutiny.[146] At one point Jones wanted to set up in Grenada, and he invited then-Prime Minister Sir Eric Gairy to visit the Temple in San Francisco.[147] He invested $200,000 in the Grenada National Bank in 1977 to pave the way, and some $76,000 was still there after the massacre.[148]

His final choice, the Matthew's Ridge section in Guyana is an interesting one. It was originally the site of a Union Carbide bauxite and manganese mine, and Jones used the dock they left behind.[149] At an earlier point, it had been one of seven possible sites chosen for the relocation of the Jews after World War II.[150] Plans to inhabit the jungles of Guyana's interior with cheap labor date back to 1919.[151] Resources buried there are among the richest in the world, and include manganese, diamonds, gold, bauxite and uranium.[152] Forbes Burnham, the Prime Minister, had participated in a scheme to repatriate Blacks from the UK to work in the area. Like all earlier attempts, it failed.[153]

Once chosen, the site was leased and worked on by a select crew of Temple members in preparation for the arrival of the body of the church. The work was done in cooperation with Burnham and the U.S. Embassy there.[154] But if these were idealists seeking a better life, their arrival in "Utopia" was a strange welcome. Piled into busses in San Francisco, they had driven to Florida. From there, Pan American charter planes delivered them to Guyana.[155] When they arrived at the airport, the Blacks were taken off the plane, bound and gagged.[156] The deception had finally been stripped bare of all pretense. The Blacks were so isolated and controlled that neighbors as close as five miles from the site did not know that Blacks lived at Jonestown. The only public representatives seen in Guyana were white.[157] Guyanese children were "bought" also.[158]

According to survivors' reports, they entered a virtual slave labor camp. Worked for 16 to 18 hours daily, they were forced to live in cramped quarters on minimum rations, usually rice, bread and sometimes rancid meat. Kept on a schedule of physical and mental exhaustion, they were also forced to stay awake at night and listen to lectures by Jones. Threats and abuse became more common.[159] The camp medical staff under Dr. Lawrence Schacht was known to perform painful suturing without anaesthetic. They administered drugs, and kept daily medical records.[160] Infractions of the rules or disloyalty led to increasingly harsh punishments, including forced drugging, sensory isolation in an underground box, physical torture and public sexual rape and humiliation. Beatings and verbal abuse were commonplace. Only the special guards were treated humanely and fed decently.[161] People with serious injuries were flown out, but few ever returned.[162] Perhaps the motto at Jonestown should have been the same as the one at Auschwitz, developed by Larry Schacht's namesake, Dr. Hjalmar Schacht, the Nazi Minister of Economics, "Arheit Macht Frei," or "Work Will Make You Free." Guyana even considered setting up an "Auschwitz-like museum" at the site, but abandoned the idea.[163]

By this point, Jones had amassed incredible wealth. Press estimates ranged from $26 million to $2 billion, including bank accounts, foreign investments and real estate. Accounts were set up worldwide by key members, often in the personal name of certain people in the Temple.[164] Much of this money, listed publicly after the massacre, disappeared mysteriously. It was a fortune far too large to have come from membership alone. The receivership set up by the government settled on a total of $10 million. Of special interest were the Swiss bank accounts opened in Panama, the money taken from the camp, and the extensive investments in Barclay's Bank.[165] Other sources of income included the German banking family of Lisa Philips Layton, Larry's mother.[166] Also, close to $65,000 a month income was claimed to come from welfare and social security checks for 199 members, sent to the Temple followers and signed over to Jones.[167] In addition, there are indications that Blakey and other members were supplementing the Temple funds with international smuggling of guns and drugs.[168] At one point, Charles Garry noted that Jones and his community were "literally sitting on a gold mine." Mineral distribution maps of Guyana suggest he was right.[169]

To comprehend this well-financed, sinister operation, we must abandon the myth that this was a religious commune and study instead the history that led to its formation. Jonestown was an experiment, part of a 30-year program called MK-ULTRA, the CIA and military intelligence code name for mind control.[170] A close study of Senator Ervin's 1974 report, Individual Rights and the Government's Role in Behavior Modification, shows that these agencies had certain "target populations" in mind, for both individual and mass control. Blacks, women, prisoners, the elderly, the young, and inmates of psychiatric wards were selected as "potentially violent."[171] There were plans in California at the time for a Center for the Study and Reduction of Violence, expanding on the horrific work of Dr. José Delgado, Drs. Mark and Ervin, and Dr. Jolly West, experts in implantation, psychosurgery, and tranquilizers. The guinea pigs were to be drawn from the ranks of the "target populations," and taken to an isolated military missile base in California.[172] In that same period, Jones began to move his Temple members to Jonestown. The were the exact population selected for such tests.[173]

The meticulous daily notes and drug records kept by Larry Schacht disappeared, but evidence did not.[174] The history of MK-ULTRA and its sister programs (MK-DELTA, ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, etc.) records a combination of drugs, drug mixtures, electroshock and torture as methods for control. The desired results ranged from temporary and permanent amnesia, uninhibited confessions, and creation of second personalities, to programmed assassins and preconditioned suicidal urges. One goal was the ability to control mass populations, especially for cheap labor.[175] Dr. Delgado told Congress that he hoped for a future where a technology would control workers in the field and troops at war with electronic remote signals. He found it hard to understand why people would complain about electrodes implanted in their brains to make them "both happy and productive."[176]

On the scene at Jonestown, Guyanese troops discovered a large cache of drugs, enough to drug the entire population of Georgetown, Guyana (well over 200,000)[177] for more than a year. According to survivors, these were being used regularly "to control" a population of only 1,100 people.[178] One footlocker contained 11,000 doses of thorazine, a dangerous tranquilizer. Drugs used in the testing for MK-ULTRA were found in abundance, including sodium pentathol (a truth serum), chloral hydrate (a hypnotic), demerol, thalium (confuses thinking), and many others.[179] Schacht had supplies of haliopareael and largatil as well, two other major tranquilizers.[180] The actual description of life at Jonestown is that of a tightly run concentration camp, complete with medical and psychiatric experimentation. The stresses and isolation of the victims is typical of sophisticated brainwashing techniques. The drugs and special tortures add an additional experimental aspect to the horror.[181] This more clearly explains the medical tags on the bodies, and why they had to be removed. It also suggests an additional motive for frustrating any chemical autopsies, since these drugs would have been found in the system of the dead.

The story of Jonestown is that of a gruesome experiment, not a religious utopian society. On the eve of the massacre, Forbes Burnham was reportedly converted to "born again" Christianity by members of the Full Gospel Christian Businessman's Association, including Lionel Luckhoo, a Temple lawyer in Guyana.[182] This same group, based in California, also reportedly converted Guatemalan dictator Rios Montt prior to his massacres there and they were in touch with Jim Jones in Ukiah.[183] They currently conduct the White House prayer breakfasts for Mr. Reagan.[184] With Ryan on his way to Jonestown, the seal of secrecy was broken. In a desperate attempt to test their conditioning methods, the Jonestown elite apparently tried to implement a real suicide drill.[185] Clearly, it led to a revolt, and the majority of people fled, unaware that there were people waiting to catch them.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?   Mon 01 Feb 2010, 3:17 pm

Moderator's Note.

An interesting discussion originally started in this thread, but on the topic of non-rational thought, universal truths, relativism, Adorno and Paulo Freire has been given it's own thread, which can be found here.

http://wwws.forummotion.com/casual-conversations-f6/the-promise-of-non-rational-thought-t306.htm

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