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 Batman: The Dark Knight

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PostSubject: Batman: The Dark Knight   Sun 06 Dec 2009, 12:23 am

I'm starting this thread so we can start a discussion around some the key scenes in the latest Batman movie. There is some enlightening dialog, mostly by the Joker.... listen carefully.

I'll post the scene first, and then we can enter into discussion in later posts.










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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Mon 07 Dec 2009, 7:46 pm

The Dark Knight is revamped Neo-Con Manichaean dialectics for the post 9/11 era, like the series 24, where the lines are somewhat blurred between good and evil. It's all apparently down to our good mate, Leo Strauss.



In a somewhat different interpretation, more of a Jungian approach, I also see Batman and the Joker as representing core aspects of the psyche, Batman as the button down, strictly ordered approach of the ego, the Joker as the dangerous, wild disowned shadow of the deep unconscious mind. I don't particularly hold to Jung's specific ideas, but I see clearly that the film can also be seen in the light of a warring psyche, the conscious mind vs. the unconscious mind.

Also the Ordo ab Chao motif of a certain society with secrets.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Mon 07 Dec 2009, 8:19 pm

Thanks for posting, IP.

First time seeing it and again watching these clips, I had a deeper affinity for the Joker than I had the Dark Knight. I'm not being profiled am I?
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Mon 07 Dec 2009, 8:32 pm

Yeah, I felt that the Joker was the far more interesting character in that film. But for Heath Ledger's electric, truly legendary performance the film is eminently forgettable.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Mon 07 Dec 2009, 9:11 pm

Very interesting stuff. I'll have to finish viewing all the clips before I can comment intelligently.
However, from the short glimpse I had of Batman, he seems strangely unappealing, sort of graceless and one-dimensional. I'll have to watch it again...
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Mon 07 Dec 2009, 10:29 pm

Just a quick observation that might appeal to the Alan Watt fans, but the Joker is wearing a "honeycomb" outfit in the Interrogation Scene, representing the inside of a Bee Hive, which is how they like to model society, with the public as the Bees.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Tue 08 Dec 2009, 6:45 am

Thanks for pointing that out, Ronne. I'm an AW fan, and I'll definitely be on the lookout for that.

Is AW unusually "into" Bee Hive societies, do you think? More so than any of other Globalist cheerleaders, I mean ?

[For some reason, I find him strangely fascinating. Funny, huh?]
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Tue 08 Dec 2009, 7:16 pm

Extant wrote:
Yeah, I felt that the Joker was the far more interesting character in that film. But for Heath Ledger's electric, truly legendary performance the film is eminently forgettable.
The interesting question to me is, how did they manage to make the Joker such a sympathetic character? *That* took some doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Tue 08 Dec 2009, 8:16 pm

ScoutsHonor wrote:
Extant wrote:
Yeah, I felt that the Joker was the far more interesting character in that film. But for Heath Ledger's electric, truly legendary performance the film is eminently forgettable.
The interesting question to me is, how did they manage to make the Joker such a sympathetic character? *That* took some doing.

Pathos. He's a mobile tragedy, the barely walking wounded soul. We can identify with him, and empathise, as we can see that life can make us look and feel on the inside how the Joker does, both exterior and interior. He's the side of all of us that we would like to break loose and raise Cain, bloody and anarchic. The throwing off of the chains of proscripted behaviour, social mores and taboos. He is the shadow we want to disown and have take over our lives. The tragicomic enfant terrible we all have inside, the inner child tucked away deep inside that collects and catalogues every single wrong done to us throughout life. He is the murder list we all maintain in secret.

Or maybe that's just me? Oops.

p.s It's also because Heath Ledger's performance was legendary. Genius. I've read backlash from certain quarters who argue that he only got an Oscar because he died. I've seen people assert that Robert Downey Jr's performance in Iron Man was much better. Cadswallop. He embodied the chaos principle so effectively and competely that I think it did literally kill him. Or maybe it was all meant to happen in some gruesome, morbid psychodrama for public consumption. All part of The Dark Knight show.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Wed 09 Dec 2009, 12:47 am

Extant wrote:
ScoutsHonor wrote:
Extant wrote:
Yeah, I felt that the Joker was the far more interesting character in that film. But for Heath Ledger's electric, truly legendary performance the film is eminently forgettable.
The interesting question to me is, how did they manage to make the Joker such a sympathetic character? *That* took some doing.

Pathos. He's a mobile tragedy, the barely walking wounded soul. We can identify with him, and empathise, as we can see that life can make us look and feel on the inside how the Joker does, both exterior and interior. He's the side of all of us that we would like to break loose and raise Cain, bloody and anarchic. The throwing off of the chains of proscripted behaviour, social mores and taboos. He is the shadow we want to disown and have take over our lives. The tragicomic enfant terrible we all have inside, the inner child tucked away deep inside that collects and catalogues every single wrong done to us throughout life. He is the murder list we all maintain in secret.

Or maybe that's just me? Oops.

p.s It's also because Heath Ledger's performance was legendary. Genius. I've read backlash from certain quarters who argue that he only got an Oscar because he died. I've seen people assert that Robert Downey Jr's performance in Iron Man was much better. Cadswallop. He embodied the chaos principle so effectively and competely that I think it did literally kill him. Or maybe it was all meant to happen in some gruesome, morbid psychodrama for public consumption. All part of The Dark Knight show.

What can I say? The most satisfying answer I've received in a long while, and a great pleasure. Be careful that I don't just keep on writing to you, now....VBG and J/K.

But on the subject, my opinion is, maybe so. I had noticed that the Joker wears lipstick and powder (of sorts), and had wondered whether this wasn't meant to highlight for us that he had serious gender problems, and I suspect Heath might have, too. Something was certainly very messed up in his life, don't you think?

But the performance was exceptionally nuanced, as they say Smile, and he definitely was a figure of great pathos.
And Batman, was a figure of great brutality, I would add. Which added to the partiality it seems mostly all of us felt towards the Joker. I would never have thought it could be so, but it was so.

Truthfully, I prefer to have my heroes remain heroic, and would have been happier if Batman had been portayed as he was in the earlier films. But. on the other hand, then I would have missed Heath's really superlative performance. Sigh. Choices, choices.Smile

Best,
SH


Last edited by ScoutsHonor on Wed 09 Dec 2009, 8:06 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : word substitution)
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Wed 09 Dec 2009, 9:12 am

ScoutsHonor wrote:
I had noticed that the Joker wears lipstick and powder (of sorts), and had wondered whether this wasn't meant to highlight for us that he had serious gender problems, and I suspect Heath might have, too. Something was certainly very messed up in his life, don't you think?

But the performance was exceptionally nuanced, as they say Smile, and he definitely was a figure of great pathos.

Yeah, some gender ambiguity there I think. Like when he dressed up as a nurse in the hospital scene. He was crossing all sorts of traditional boundaries in the film. The uncomfortable areas of the psyche. Ledger's portrayal quite probably reflected his own inner struggles, as I read that he created that particular Joker almost single handedly. It was his Joker it seems.

ScoutsHonor wrote:
And Batman, was a figure of great brutality, I would add. Which added to the partiality it seems mostly all of us felt towards the Joker. I would never have thought it could be so, but it was so.

Truthfully, I prefer to have my heroes remain heroic, and would have been happier if Batman had been portayed as he was in the earlier films.
But. on the other hand, then I would have missed Heath's really superlative performance. Sigh. Choices, choices.Smile

That Batman was far more like the way he was originally portrayed by his creator Bob Kane, and in all the great portrayals of the character. Mean, brutal, borderline psychopathic, sado-masochistic, obsessive, dark. Did I say dark already? lol. That's Bats all over. The film was also basically a rip-off of Frank Miller's graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns also.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Wed 09 Dec 2009, 8:29 pm

Extant,
I'm beginning to think some very dark thoughts about this film, Heath Ledger and his death. Very dark.

I'm beginning to think he was used to make a snuff film, that they knew he would kill himself or, that they helped him along...

Why? To generate Lots of money, and a smash hit.

That's pretty dark, don'tya think?
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Wed 09 Dec 2009, 9:43 pm

This is a very very dark movie, indeed. This reveals the psycopaths behind this system. They much be stopped.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Thu 10 Dec 2009, 5:54 am

ScoutsHonor wrote:
Extant,
I'm beginning to think some very dark thoughts about this film, Heath Ledger and his death. Very dark.

I'm beginning to think he was used to make a snuff film, that they knew he would kill himself or, that they helped him along...

Why? To generate Lots of money, and a smash hit.

That's pretty dark, don'tya think?

Yes, very possibly was that way. Very dark indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Thu 10 Dec 2009, 1:21 pm

Batman is the war on terror, the joker is the irrational Islamic terrorist. I thought that about batman when I first saw it, but I didn't notice the joker until you guys pointed out the game theory stuff. The media portrays terrorists the same way as the joker acted, they don't want anything but to make people suffer.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Thu 10 Dec 2009, 1:24 pm

ScoutsHonor wrote:
Extant,
I'm beginning to think some very dark thoughts about this film, Heath Ledger and his death. Very dark.

I'm beginning to think he was used to make a snuff film, that they knew he would kill himself or, that they helped him along...

Why? To generate Lots of money, and a smash hit.

That's pretty dark, don'tya think?

I agree completely, a propaganda masterpiece isn't worth much if no one sees it. When I heard he died people were saying it was because his role was "so dark" and he went to the extreme to get in the part. That sounds like bullshit to me, but it is a good way to get people to think OMG I MUST SEE IT NOW.

I really like how you guys help me think. Smile This is a great site.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Thu 10 Dec 2009, 8:47 pm

Thanks, guys, for replying. Will have some more comments later. I'm still trying to recover from this unpleasant shock.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Thu 10 Dec 2009, 8:56 pm

Quote :
I really like how you guys help me think. Smile This is a great site.

Hey, thank you.
It's really nice having you here, and I'm looking forward to many enjoyable conversations... :-)

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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Fri 11 Dec 2009, 12:13 pm

Just like Bill Cooper and Jim Morrison, I sometimes wonder if Heath Ledger's death was faked for some reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Sun 13 Dec 2009, 3:50 pm

I just got finished watching the end of this movie on HBO. To me the defining scene is the hospital scene where the joker talks about the cops and the mafia and there schemes and plans to control every little thing in their world and he is the choas to unfold their schemes. However we all know in this forum that they (the social planners) create both the anarchy and the control, that there is no true anarchy, at least not America. They have even created a new definition IMO controlled anarachy (controlled-private anarachy-public). Doublespeak double plus good. Need evidence , try WACO, Ruby Ridge, Ft Hood, Climategate, etc...
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Sun 13 Dec 2009, 4:59 pm

What I also found interesting is the traditional systems of control breaking down. For example, the local elites who fund the political establishment, and the criminals who perpetrate crimes are all disrupted by the Joker, who introduces new rules, which is that there are no rules other than psycopathic power. This is quite a scary message.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Sun 13 Dec 2009, 8:06 pm

Interesting how this movie is revealing more and more "sides" to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Sun 13 Dec 2009, 8:31 pm

I watched this movie at the theater when it came out. Just by the trailer I knew it contained exactly what I wanted to see, the highly plotted joker anarchy. The game theory info pointed out here just put the icing on the cake for me. This movie in my opinion is a monumental movie. I think it was mostly released to scare people about anarchy. Many people are catching on to the schemeing that goes on and the fraud of the entire system itself. What better way to trodden down the masses but to show them that you need your government, look this is what will happen without us.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Mon 14 Dec 2009, 6:20 am

It's a little trick TPTB always pull when discussing chaos, or a complete breakdown of society into a degenerative, toxic milieu: they call it anarchy. Which is not what anarchy means at all. It just means to be "without leaders." Which is, of course, what they fear most to me. For if we didn't need leaders, but could in the ultimate sense of the concept anarchy lead ourselves, for our best interests in a system of a non-system that never placed the control of a community, society in the hands of a specific group, and did not create a hierarchical control structure such as we have now, then there would never be any "Powers That be."
Of course the problem is as ever with such a thing (which may be a pipe dream), humans are complacent and corruptible by the promise of power over others, and while the ordinary man and woman have all eyes on surviving and caring for their families, individuals of a certain predisposition plot and scheme always to have more for themselves. Like Orwell said in Animal Farm, some animals are more equal than others. Or so certain animals think.
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PostSubject: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight   Sun 02 Oct 2011, 11:42 pm

Such a great scene, so full of information describing how the elite think and "feel".


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