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 Magic (beyond the New Age)

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PostSubject: Magic (beyond the New Age)   Magic (beyond the New Age) EmptySun 09 Oct 2011, 1:29 pm

Hey, I'm new here. This is Warren who called in and exposed Alan Watt by bringing up Glen Kealey (if anyone knows of that perhaps). Anyhow, I was parusing this forum before signing up, and I found these quotes from Jeaques Ellul:

"There is also the technique of a more or less spiritual order, which we call magic.
It may seem questionable; nevertheless, magic is a technique in the strictest sense of the word, as has been clearly demonstrated by Marcel Mauss. Magic developed along with other techniques as an expression of man's will to obtain results of a spiritual order. To attain them , man made use of an aggregate of rites, formulas, and procedures which, once established, do not vary. Strict adherence to form is one of the characteristics of magic: forms and rituals, masks which never vary, the same kind of prayer wheels, the same ingredients for mystic drugs, for formulae of divination, and so on. All these become set and were passed on: the slightest variation in word or gesture would alter the magical equilibrium.

There is a relationship between the ready-made formula and a precise result. The gods being propitiated obey such an invocation out of necessity; all the more reason that they be given no opportunity to escape compliance because the invocation is not correctly formulated. This fixity is a manifestation of the technical character of magic: when the best possible means of obtaining a result has been found, why change it? Every magical means, in the eyes of the person who uses it, is the most efficient one.

In the spiritual realm, magic displays all the characteristics of a technique. It is the mediator between man and "the higher powers," just as other techniques mediate between man and matter. It leads to efficacy because it subordinates the power of the gods to men, and it secures a predetermined result. It affirms human power in that it seeks to subordinate gods to men, just as technique serves to cause nature to obey."

"Masson-Oursel... shows that magic is basically a 'scholasticism of efficiency.'"

"Masson-Oursel rightly believes that magic preceeded technique - in fact, that magic is the first expression of technique."


This of coarse got me to thinking here... I've long done known that the elites are into some form of magic, into ritual magic, sex magic, blood sacrifice, etc etc. I also think Crowley knew some science behind this, he wrote a book called "Magick in Theory and Practice." Before I woke up, I used to have a friend at one time who was heavily into black magic, he was a Crowley satanist. He seemed pretty knowledgeable about it, not like some sort of new age sensationalistic crap like you see with a lot of these wiccans and goths and crap who are just looking for something out-there sounding to wow their friends, but more in the lines of a science or an art form or something.....

I have heard it said (and this does make some since) that magic is just unpublicized science and technology.... That makes sense in the materialistic sense, say for example if I were to travel back in time to the colonial era and tell them that people would fly some day, they'd be like "no that's insane, ppl can't fly, that's magic, your a witch" or whatever, yet, low and behold a century or so later, they fly the first airplane. However, I'm more interested in the psycho-spiritual aspect of it...

The one thing though that makes me a little skeptical is, if this stuff is real, and there is a science behind it (I'm not talking about all the new age wicca shit or neo pagan shit or w/e either, I'm talking about the real shit), I am also nervous that I may be playing with forces beyond my comprehension, when my friend tried to get me into magic before, he had me chanting the masonic motto "As Above, So Below," and I had to set up an altar which contained a pentagram, a chalice (for water), a candle (for fire), a pot of dirt (for earth), and a dagger (for wind, it's swipe it through the air to make a wind). I barely even lightly dabbled with it then, so I didn't really see any results or anything because I barely even did anything at all... But like when a magic practitioner casts a spell they are making a contract to those entities, I believe, if this is the case, I am afraid of putting my soul into bondage... Or is this how it works?.....

I think I may get Crowley's book "Magic in Theory and Practice," at the very least to read through this stuff... I am not an evil person, I am only trying to learn more about the world beyond the 5 senses, higher realities of the soul....
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PostSubject: Re: Magic (beyond the New Age)   Magic (beyond the New Age) EmptyMon 10 Oct 2011, 6:52 pm

Hi Warren -
welcome to the Forum!

Glad you're not an evil person - I hate those kind. Laughing

Re: 'putting (your) soul into bondage' - Good point!
You're probably better off deferring this venture, IMO. Just to be on the safe side...si?

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PostSubject: Re: Magic (beyond the New Age)   Magic (beyond the New Age) EmptyMon 10 Oct 2011, 7:13 pm

That may be so, either way I think I'm gonna get Crowley's book and even if I don't practice it, I think I'm at the very least gonna study how it works.... I also remember too, another interesting point, the necronomicon was the first bible per say, of the way ancient Egyptians, it was called the "book of the dead," and was caste in human flesh and written in human blood, allegedly by a monk called "the Mad Arab," Abdul Alhazred.... Makes sense because the first priesthoods rose out of ancient Persia.

They sell worthless watered down bs copies in bookstores but those things aren't really accurate. The only real necronomicon is the ancient one, which is locked away in the Vatican Church... It's been said to be a very highly dangerous book. On that same note, the Vatican may also be keeping all the lost information covered up when they burned the Library of Alexandria (LOA) to the ground... The LOA has been stated to have housed many great mysteries they may not have wanted falling into the hands of us "profane."
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PostSubject: Re: Magic (beyond the New Age)   Magic (beyond the New Age) EmptyWed 12 Oct 2011, 12:52 am

Warren, welcome to what I hope you will find will be a place where you can engage in serious discussion without BS or obstruction.

And thanks for re-posting the Jacques Ellul quotes, as this is excellent material for which I needed reminding.

I view magic as merely another technique, and technique's purpose is always to:

1) serve as a "mediator between man" and Nature (God, if you will);
2) create "a relationship between the ready-made formula and a precise result"

I suggest searching for the thread(s) on Godel (pronounced 'girdle', like what women wear) and Cantor, as I believe these thread start to discuss the need to create world-systems that obey perfect laws. I believe it is the aim to create these systems so that the worlds become predictable, and therefore manageable and hence, controllable.

Godel & Cantor, each in their own area of speciality found that Nature is not perfect, and therefore is infinite, and hence can NOT be controlled.

What we see now is the push toward the latest techniques, which is to create a virtual world based upon Norbert Weiner's PhD thesis that shows that 'order pairs follow the laws of Set Theory'. In layman's terms, this means that the computer hardware, based upon on or off transistors, and that computer software (based on binary system of 1's and 0's), all obey the laws of Set Theory, and therefore "precise results" follow "ready-made formulas" across the entire system.

Nature is being usurped by a global systems all built upon the foundations of Set Theory, and becomes the new "mediator between man" and Nature. It's the new magic. The goals are the same, just the method of technique more advanced and far more pervasive.

Perhaps researching further into the history of magic, if that does indeed interest you, will highlight these similarities. It will be interesting to learn more, so please report back on what you find if you pursue this further.

"For every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, there is one striking at the root."
David Thoreau (1817-1862)
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