Defeatism?

I wandered over here this evening via a Google search result on Matt Collins. There had been something of a row over at The Daily Paul about a message that he posted there, which some seemed to think was an attempt at sabotage, which charge I thought I'd investigate for myself - that appears not to be the case now, unless this same person or some co-conspirator hijacked Paul's FB page, and Doug Wead is unaware of this person being a plant. But that's not what I wanted to discuss with you folks.

As I was browsing through your forums, I noticed that the general sentiment seems to be that political action is futile, because the entire system, including the Liberty Movement in all of its instantiations, is more or less fully controlled by the establishment. Is my appraisal accurate?

If so, I wanted to ask you this: if you are a person who upholds the non-aggression principle, let's call it a "libertarian" for the sake of convention (though that can mean many things), what is it that you think you ought to do to achieve your desired end-state for society; i.e. if not political action? Is the plan to sit back and wait for the State to dissolve of its own accord?

Secondly, many here seem to think that Ron Paul is a plant, a shill? Needless to say, I find that to be an absolutely incredible charge, and I'd be much obliged if someone with this view would explain their reasoning.

Thanks

Well, I see that I'm the only member online, along with six guests and one "bot"....I also see that this forum is practically dead. No comments for weeks. Practically no comments for the year. Only 66 members in total. Guess I'll check back in a few months to see if anyone responds to my question...looks like I may have wasted my time.

First, we're not a high volume forum. Personally, I guess I don't see that as a valid criteria for assessing the value of the forum. Further, higher volume typically means higher noise to signal ratio, and I personally enjoy the opposite. So, if you want chatter, this is not the place to be. On the other hand, if you want deep thinking that requires much self-inflection and research, than I think you might find that here.

As far as politics, yes, politics was discussed by Plato as being Cybernetic. In other words, controller of information and information processes. Our founders did not create a political system. In fact, their libertarian model was extremely light on gov't, for gov't and politics are techniques of control.

Speaking personally, I think the only path of sanity is to withdraw from all aspects of this Simulacrum, and to return to a sense of reality. This does not necessarily mean a full physical withrawal, but acquiring a deep understanding of how the current system works, it's forces upon us, and when and how to participate such that we do not overtly add to its strength.

My take, which is just my take, one nice thing about a slow forum like this is there is much more unique ideas being thrown around. I see the system's grip being so absolute there is no clear way out, if you cannot see that, I don't think you've looked hard enough or honestly enough. This sounds hopeless, and it is why most choose to ignore or underestimate the problems that I and others see. I *choose* to have hope, I can't even be sure their is much, and not even for me, but for humanity as a species. As Terrence McKenna said "this doesn't have to end as a toxic garbage pit ruled by nazis". It doesn't have to, but that is where it's going.

Clairvoyant wrote:

As Terrence McKenna said "this doesn't have to end as a toxic garbage pit ruled by nazis". It doesn't have to, but that is where it's going.

Wow, TM said that? Great quote. It's a keeper

Clairvoyant wrote:

My take, which is just my take, one nice thing about a slow forum like this is there is much more unique ideas being thrown around. I see the system's grip being so absolute there is no clear way out, if you cannot see that, I don't think you've looked hard enough or honestly enough. This sounds hopeless, and it is why most choose to ignore or underestimate the problems that I and others see. I *choose* to have hope, I can't even be sure their is much, and not even for me, but for humanity as a species. As Terrence McKenna said "this doesn't have to end as a toxic garbage pit ruled by nazis". It doesn't have to, but that is where it's going.

Hi C,

Found this quote by Terence McKenna:

"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world."

Interesting guy! Seems as though he was on the same trail as Jacques Ellul and Baudrillard, even though he was much more noted for his psychedelic 'expertise'....(I believe?)

Thanks for bringing him up.

The problem now is cultured is centralised and controlled. I view what McKenna was saying here was not to lose control of this very important societal function. Good stuff everyone.