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 Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth

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PostSubject: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Wed 10 Nov 2010, 7:22 pm

Why did Cantor & Kurt Godel end up in insane asylums? Perhaps because they worked on proving that there is something greater than 'man", which Godel finally DID prove. Funny, we haven't heard of Godel, but we've certainly heard of Turing and his machine, which was the formulation of the computer and an abomination of Godel's work. Perhaps Godel's paranoia was justified?





Guess we 'hu' mans are supposed to live in circular systems of small radii, where the gaps [of infinity] are as small as possible, so that we only reside on vectors of system design, designed by other men.

Funny how trivial their systems have revealed themselves to be. The beauty and our power lies in the gaps, which is why we're all supposed to be spending our lives staring at 2" x 2" mobile phone screens connected to a global computer grid.... It's pretty hard to find the gaps there.

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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 12:23 am

Good to see you back, C1. Vids are buffering...
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 1:21 am

The letters proving the theorem was true then not true etc do not sit well with me, nor does the explanation.
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 1:26 am

Around 25:30 blue shirt disinfo agent guy comes on a blames a 'psychiatric illness'
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 1:30 am

I really suspect BBCs 'story' of Cantor.
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 3:04 am

From crackbook.

Quote :

Joel Morrison, Paul Lucier and Peg Kriner like this.
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Peg Kriner ‎...and then she woke up! ☮
2 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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Catherine Duzynski WILL WATCH LATER ... THESE guys are the DNA Dudes right? Turing ... & co ... ?
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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Clark Robinson Mathematical infinities are God guys.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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Clark Robinson I seriously suspect the BBCs story of Cantor's last years.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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Peg Kriner Hey Clark, You know of any double agents??
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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Clark Robinson I've suspected many and called them on it on the Internetz but no not personally.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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Clark Robinson I take what I said back, Peg. There are some people in various local 'movements' I suspect also.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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John Williams
Watson and Crick were the DNA dudes.

Gödel's theorem proves that Mathematics cannot be used to describe everything about numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems
......
This is sometimes generalized to a discussion about the limitations of any system of rules / descriptions, and the problems of self reference, and implies limitations on what computers can do, or for that matter limitations on how much Humans can understand the world around them.

From this problem you get fun games like:

"This sentence is false"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradoxSee More
52 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...
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Clark Robinson So why does the story go that these math geniuses recanted or lost it or killed themselves?
50 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Clark Robinson I don't grok the BBCs official story.
49 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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John Williams
haven't watched the documentary, and don't know the details.

I just know Gödel from the book:

"Gödel, Escher, Bach" which I bought and tried to read before I became a Software Engineer, and was pretty far over my head then, and probably still... is now.

I wouldn't say that Gödel is hidden or lost to history or knowlege. There are books about him, but the general public is probably not interested in him.

Kinda like people wanna say Tesla was forgotten, while ignoring there is a whole industry revolving around documenting his life and work, and speculating on what it all meant.See More
45 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...
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Clark Robinson Seeing God in math is like meditating for it on a mountain peak. I'm all for it. Cmon though many of us have seen 'God' and we didn't die horrible deaths, alone.
45 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Gary Rea
I turned it off as soon as I heard him say there is a "matrix of pure mathematics that explains the rules..." blah, blah, blah. No, there is not. The proper role of mathematics is to describe the known, not to reveal the unknown, and it is ...certainly not the underlying basis of reality. That is a notion that goes back to the early Greek philosophers who believed (quite wrongly) that everything is reducible to numbers. This same nonsense has infected science for the last century and has obliterated any true understanding of the world we live in. It has been the basis for a hijacking of science by theoreticians whose real goal is to so obscure our knowledge of reality that we can have no reference to reality that makes any sense. This is intended to make it impossible for us to gain and maintain any grip on reality as we are bombarded with a barrage of lies from all directions. The more confused we are about the nature of reality, the more ripe our minds are for any manipulation.See More
44 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Clark Robinson That was my initial reaction too Gary but I kept watching. I just finished the first one my impression is these math mavericks went deep and found that just that cut and paste formula did not come close to describing the universe. And proved it then recanted then went crazy or killed themselves. Which is interesting as hell in itself.
39 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Catherine Duzynski Wasn't there a show on Frontline about this? Or maybe NOVA where they talked about the woman researcher whose work was stolen by the DNA KINGS? In the UK?
37 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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John Williams
Well, math being a very formal system, which built on very simple rules, into a more and more complex, but logically consistent system, held out the promise of something indisputably true.

Gödel comes along and proves that this too has its l...imitations.

That does not invalidate Mathematics. It just proves that a) there is more to be discovered, and b) there probably is no end to a need for further discovery, and probably the Human Mind cannot get outside of its own perspective to see the Objective Truth observable only by someone completely outside the system.

Kinda like the fish in the ocean may not be aware of the water in which he swims.See More
36 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Catherine Duzynski My mind is a tad fuzzy -- it's late ...
36 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Gary Rea Ah, I see. Well, it certainly didn't sound like that's where they were headed with it. Quite frankly, it really pisses me off when some egghead starts reguritating this bullshit. I regard it as a colossal insult to my intelligence, as well as a denial of reality.
36 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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John Williams
You gotta be careful of only searching for things that confirm what you have already decided is the truth.

I think this is what offends you about Science Eggheads, and it offends me too, but I always try to apply what I dislike in others to ...myself. I should worry too that I am feeding my own bias, and I should be ready to discern when the facts contradict my model(s) of the world.

I haven't watched the whole video yet, so I can't speak for my approval or not of what is said therein.See More
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Clark Robinson Gary consider this piece a complete PSYOP. I don't watch TV, this is what I do. Fascinating infobits mixed with official story. Fertile ground for speculation.
31 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...
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Clark Robinson Thanks, John.
29 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Gary Rea
Agreed, John. We will, quite frankly, never learn all there is to know, nor can we ever hope to observe all there is to observe and mathematics is certainly not going to lead us to any final conclusions about anything. Science is limited by... our own inherent sensory limitations, though we've managed to transcend those limits, to an extent, with various devices that effectively extend our senses. Even so, there are limits to what we can observe and verify and, thus, our science and our understanding of the universe will always be limited, as well. There is no grand unified theory of everything and anyone who tells us otherwise is quite demented.See More
28 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 2 peopleLoading...
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Gary Rea Yes, Clark, I DO! If we take Eustace Mullins' words, "Everyone on television is part of the New World Order" to heart, it becomes evident that everything said by everyone on television is equally suspect.
26 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...
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Clark Robinson When Mullins said that it was before broadband. "Every media piece is a psyop". ~ Me
23 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...
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Gary Rea Another thought: if the message is that reality makes no sense and is so complex it has to be explained to us by mathematicians of the highest caliber, then there is no hope of ever understanding reality. That is exactly where they want us: completely baffled and ignorant.
23 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...
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Clark Robinson I see their work as challenging the existing paradigm, expadning upon it and getting blackballed.
20 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...
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Gary Rea Yep. The same has been happening to any scientists proposing alternatives to the "Big Bang."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yTfRy0LTD0
5 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...
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Clark Robinson Blackballed drivin' crazy or whacked.
2 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...
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Gary Rea Or all of the above. LOL
2 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...

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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Knowledge (BBC Documentary): What Happens When you Find Truth   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 6:41 pm

incognito wrote:
Around 25:30 blue shirt disinfo agent guy comes on a blames a 'psychiatric illness'
Yes, his purpose in the documentary is to establish that there is something wrong with people who invest too much time trying to figure out truths.

Now, once you've gotten through the BBC docu, check out this Sydney professor's talk... it is very good until the last few minutes of part 2.

Videos at:
http://www.themonthly.com.au/key-thinkers-kurt-goedel-and-limits-mathematics-mark-colyvan-2151

http://www.themonthly.com.au/key-thinkers-kurt-goedel-and-limits-mathematics-mark-colyvan-p2-2150

It is within the final mins of part 2 that we see this professor enter into the following discussion...

Is there a difference between human and machine thinking? Does Godel's works ("this sentence is unprovable") tell us something deep about the difference between formal/algorithmically systems (eg computers) and human minds? Formal systems can't see the the fallacy in this sentence, but the human mind can easily see it. Hence, there is something fundamentally different between the way humans and machines think. Machine thinking encompasses the Godel shortcomings, where the human mind does not.

But he does not think the fact that our mathematical system is inconsistent and incomplete are very big deals, and that the fact that the human mind can so easily see this but math cannot is not enough to differentiate the way the human mind works from machines.

So, we humans are supposed to live in a simulacrum created by mathematical models and computers, that run these math models at blazing speed, even though these simulacra are inconsistent and controlled by their designed. Nope, don't believe in a higher power where infinite infinities are everywhere, we should confine ourselves to closed incomplete inconsistent systems.

What's so outrageous here can be encompassed in these Bertrand Russell quotes, show very well that these guys knew what they were doing and what they were dealing with... at least over 100 years ago:

"Mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true." (Mysticism and Logic (1917) ch. 4)

"Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty - a beauty cold and austere, like that of sculpture. "

Obviously, 'rightly viewed' means from the viewpoint of the controllers of the mathematical system that the rest of us are supposed to take as gospel.

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