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 John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving

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incognito

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PostSubject: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Fri 05 Mar 2010, 4:48 am

Finally the much anticipated (by me anyway) John Taylor Gatto interview by Gnosticmedia's Jan Irving here:

http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/enclosure/2010-03-05T00_01_15-08_00.mp3

I'm off to listen now...
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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Fri 05 Mar 2010, 10:12 pm

Thanks, Incognito. Anytime I can get an MP3 of Gatto speaking its good. Burn it to CD and listen in the car. I have listened to the Paradox of Education many times while driving.
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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Fri 05 Mar 2010, 11:28 pm

Thanks. Downloaded. Will listen via mobile player over the weekend.

I've head quite a number of Gatto's talks, but don't recall one called Paradox of Education. But that's a interesting title, and immediately makes me think of Adorno's Dialectic of Enlightenment, where the more one is enlightened the more they are indoctrinated.

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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Sat 06 Mar 2010, 2:47 am

Thanks Incognito.  Fantastically rich interview; this man is *really* sharp and pleasure to listen to.
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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Sat 06 Mar 2010, 3:28 am

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePardoxOfExtendedChildhood-InstitutinalizedEducationJohnTaylorGatto</A>

This is from extant. Sorry about the name. Paradox of extended childhood, not education but the audio might as well be the paradox of education as well as Gatto says so within the linked audio.
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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Sat 06 Mar 2010, 3:54 pm

Best Gatto talk I've ever heard... and I've listened to almost all of his material.

He's really letting loose with a lot of information and connecting a lot of dots...perhaps because he is short on time. Great early summary of how some of the key philosophers and philosophies were used to justify various system designs that are still in effect today. This is such a refreshing break from all the COINTEL propaganda that Screwtape describes as "glorious noise".

Much of the techniques of educational design are evident now on the Web and in the media, in general, creating total confusion in the minds of the public "so that they will never be a threat" to those who are born from the approved 'gene pool'.

A little I'll post some notes summarizing what I believe are some of the critical points.

Great stuff!

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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Sun 07 Mar 2010, 4:04 am

"Buckminster Fuller said, the wealth that graces our lives is everywhere. The conditioning that schooling, television and the corporate-consuming culture creates in our head - that we must have this or that - prevents us from seeing that there is really is enough for everybody. I think we will have to abandon forced schooling to finally realize this – to experience it deeply."

http://www.ttfuture.org/authors/jtgatto

http://www.ttfuture.org/files/2/members/int_gatto_0.pdf
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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Sun 07 Mar 2010, 11:21 am

I hated school so I just tried to have fun. The teachers never laughed. I intuitively knew something was amiss, JTG brought it home for me.
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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Wed 10 Mar 2010, 2:53 pm

Highlights from the Interview... key clips from audio and notes.
(more to come as I have time)

Essential Skills & Characteristics

Essential Skills

  • concentration
  • association
  • experience
  • expression


What is the Purpose of Education?

Purpose of Modern Education

  • From Plato onward: philosophers generally agree that only conditions and attitudes could be programmed into the public, creating a simulation of a learned person.
  • Plato divides people into base metals and precious metals, can't transmute these metals, we are stuck with them.... with the base metal being a threat to the precious metals (interesting that the threat is not presented the other way around).
  • John Calvin - 'Institutes of the Christian Religion': "salvation is already decoded before you are born".
  • Calvin - 1 of 20 are "justified sinners"... going to heaven no matter what they did... Majority was doomed whatever they did.
  • Calvin constructs a system of mass forced education where the masses are so confused by half-truths and mal-teaching that they will never become a serious threat to the [1-in-20] 'justified sinners' (sounds like the impact of the Internet, does it not?).
  • Spinoza (taught everywhere as this grand liberal and champion of freedom): Knew that this "freedom" could only be true for 1-in-20, as "the vast majority of the human race is murderously irrational...there is no cure for being born made of lead or born already doomed, there is no cure for this irrationality (wasn't the "Evidence of Revision" producer arguing the benefits of non-rational thought in a thread on this forum?). So to protect the 1-in-20, what has to be done is a system of universal forced schooling that deliberately filled the mind with half-truths and outright errors (sounds like the Internet, doesn't it?), deprives the people of skill by teaching subjects rather than skills (concentration, assoc, conversation, etc).
  • Johann Fichte inherited Immanuel Kant's chair in Berlin: Fichte said we lost war against French because soldiers thought for themselves, and demanded king of Prussia institute forced schooling until all independent thinking was wiped out (I wonder if that dialectic was established deliberately... manufacturing and losing the war in order to create an excuse for massed forced schooling?).
  • Fichte: the imagination of the masses is the greatest threat to the 'best' people. It can surprise their betters.
  • The Atlantic Monthly prolonged joblessness impact on American (Mar 10, 2010): They blame others for their difficulties (This is the dialectic, that will be responded to with social controls. They created the dumbed-down condition, they used GATT to send our economy to China, now they will blame the victims for their angry response in order to justify suppression). They require constant direction and flounder without precise guidelines. We've created a group of parasitic young people who want to be taken care of.
  • Gatto - Opposite of Atlantic Monthly thesis: adaptability, perseverance, enterprise, humility (not self esteem).... We need people to give value back to society....leadership, problem solving ability.


Quote :
From Touch the Future Interview...

Lets start five centuries ago when John Calvin, who seemed to me the most influential theologian of the last fifteen hundred years. Calvin says clearly that the damned are many times larger in number than the saved. The ratio is about twenty to one. There are too many damned to overwhelm with force. So you have to cloud their minds and set them into meaningless competitions with one another in ways that will eat up that energy.

Jump from Calvin to a thoroughly secular philosopher in Amsterdam, Benedict Spinoza who published a book in 1670 that had a huge influence on the leadership classes of Europe, the United States and Asia. Its called Tractate Religico Politicu.

In it he said it was nonsense to think people were damned or evil because there was no supernatural world. He also said there's an enormous disproportion between permanently irrational people who are absolutely dangerous and the people who have good sense. The ratio is about twenty to one.

Spinoza actually says that an institutional school system should be set up as a civil religion. Its a term you find common in early colonial writing because everyone read Spinoza, all over the planet.

He said we need a civil religion for two reasons. One, to eliminate official religion, which he says is completely irrational and dangerous. And two, to bind up the energies of these irrational twenty to one and to destroy their imagination.

In all but words said the same thing as Calvin, but Spinoza said it flatly. We have to destroy the imagination because its only through the imagination that the maximum damage is unleashed. Otherwise people can struggle against the chains, maybe even cause local damage, but they cant do much harm to the fundamental structure because they cant think outside of the box.

Jump from Spinoza in 1670 to Johann Fichte in Northern Germany in 1807, 1808, 1809, where the very first successful institutional schooling in the history of the planet, was established.

Ficthe says in his famous Addresses to the German Nation, that the reason Prussia suffered a catastrophic defeat against Napoleon at Jena was because order was turned on its head by ordinary solders taking decisions into their hands. He called for a national system of training that would make it impossible for underlings to imagine any other way to do things. A decade later Prussia had the first institutional form of mass schooling on the planet.

http://www.ttfuture.org/authors/jtgatto

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PostSubject: Re: John Taylor Gatto Interviewed by Jan Irving   Mon 15 Mar 2010, 3:46 am

Wow, I missed the follow up posts. I have some reading to do.

Anyway here's part 2, it was just posted. Enjoy.

"Today we continue learning the significance behind Pink Floyd's song Another Brick in the Wall, part 2, and how utterly fubar our public education system is in our second interview with John Taylor Gatto.

We continue with some important questions: Is there a relationship between eugenics, mind control and compulsory education? Is compulsory education good for anyone and what are the negative effects of our "modern" education system? Where did our education system originate, and by whom? What's happened to our educational system since the 1800s? Has there been an intentional effort by the elites and government to dumb us down? What do compulsory education and Pavlov's dogs have in common? Are children better off working, or being in school?"

http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/enclosure/2010-03-15T00_11_48-07_00.mp3
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