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 Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom

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PostSubject: Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 10:03 pm


In The Presence of the Kingdom, Jacques Ellul says that "the Christian should neither withdraw from the world, nor be lost in the midst of the world. Instead, the Christian should bring the reign of God and the world into collision."

Contrary to advocating withdrawal from the world or urging a lifeboat, Ellul challenges us to embrace and preserve the world. God alone will effect our separation in hi own time. This resolute engagement requires a dialectical and antagonistic style of life which remain very much in the world even as it rejects worldliness. To be in the world also requires us to understand it in both its material and spiritual aspects, a task Ellul has undertaken in his sociological and theological works and which he challenges us to better. By rejecting the twin perils of spiritualization (which neglect material realities) and capitulation (which simply adopts one of the world's many different options that appears to harmonize with Christianity), the Christian plays a truly creative role and gives meaning and direction to history, which otherwise has no logic or certitude.

Authentic Christian existence trusts in the power of the Holy Spirit to give our "presence" a revolution and explosive force in history.

I've uploaded the Introduction to this book, and I strongly recommend that people read it, as it describes how one can simultaneouly exist inside and outside the Simulacrum, whether they are a Christian or not.

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David Thoreau (1817-1862)


Last edited by C1 on Thu 25 Feb 2010, 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 10:37 pm

In Ellul's, The Presence of the Kingdom, he gives an unusual answer to the question, How should a Christian conduct himself in today's society? The usual answer is either to separate ourselves from the culture as the pietists do, or to engage with and conquer the culture as the triumphalists do. Ellul proposes a third answer: we are to simply bear witness to the truth by being Christians in a fallen world, neither separating ourselves from nor immersing ourselves in the culture. Here are some relevant excerpts...

Quote :
..."Resolute engagement of the world requires a dialectical and agonistic style of life. One must reject the twin pillars of spiritualization, for it neglects material realities & includes capitulation. What is first req'd is a presence.... A style of life...an attitude..a special mode of existence."

He speaks of living "in" the world, not "of" it...... "If one is necessarily in the world, he is not necessarily of it..... for thought, life, heart are not controlled by the world, and do not depend on the world, for they belong to another master."

Contrary to advocating withdrawal from the world or urging a lifeboat, Ellul challenges us to embrace and preserve the world. God alone will effect our separation in his own time. This resolute engagement requires a dialectical and agonistic style of life which remain very much in the world even as it rejects worldliness. To be in the world also requires us to understand it in both its material and spiritual aspects, a task ellul has undertaken in his sociological and theological works and which he challenges us to better. By rejecting the twin perils of spiritualization (which neglect material realities) and capitulation (which simply adopts one of the world's many different options that appears to harmonize with Christianity), the Christian plays a truly creative role and gives meaning and direction to history, which otherwise has no logic or certitude.

Authentic Christian existence trusts in the power of the Holy Spirit to give our "presence" a revolution and explosive force in history.

Quote :
http://www.thewords.com/articles/ellul.htm

"What constantly marked the life of Jesus was not nonviolence
but in every situation the choice not to use power. This is
infinitely different."

"The Christian should participate in social and political efforts in order to have an influence in the work, not with the hope of making a paradise (of the earth), but simply to make it more tolerable -- not to diminish the opposition between this world and the Kingdom of God, but simply to modify the opposition between the disorder of this world and the order of preservation that God wants it to have -- not to bring in the Kingdom of God, but so that the Gospel might be proclaimed in order that all men might truly hear the good news."

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David Thoreau (1817-1862)
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PostSubject: Re: Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom   Fri 14 Oct 2011, 4:39 pm

Bingo....

"engagement requires a dialectical and antagonistic style of life which remain very much in the world even as it rejects worldliness"

This is my approach. I am extremely antagonistic toward this "wordliness" that we moving towards.

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PostSubject: Re: Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom   Tue 23 Apr 2013, 11:25 pm

C1 wrote:
Bingo....

"engagement requires a dialectical and antagonistic style of life which remain very much in the world even as it rejects worldliness"

This is my approach. I am extremely antagonistic toward this "wordliness" that we moving towards.
I'm becoming more and more antagonistic toward this increasingly sadistic dysfunctional human society. But more and more find myself in confrontation with angry one-dimensional "humans" who are so confused and so brainwashed that their only response to anything outside their limited frames of "thought" are emotional outbursts, typicall some vial slogan or explitive. I've grown sick of this shit. We've become a totally ignorant race. Its so utterly dissappointing as we have so much potential for greatness, but instead let pyschopathic freaks push us down to ugly animalistic behaviors.

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David Thoreau (1817-1862)
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PostSubject: Re: Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom   Thu 25 Apr 2013, 9:05 pm

C1 wrote:
C1 wrote:
Bingo....

"engagement requires a dialectical and antagonistic style of life which remain very much in the world even as it rejects worldliness"

This is my approach. I am extremely antagonistic toward this "wordliness" that we moving towards.
I'm becoming more and more antagonistic toward this increasingly sadistic dysfunctional human society. But more and more find myself in confrontation with angry one-dimensional "humans" who are so confused and so brainwashed that their only response to anything outside their limited frames of "thought" are emotional outbursts, typicall some vial slogan or explitive. I've grown sick of this shit. We've become a totally ignorant race. Its so utterly dissappointing as we have so much potential for greatness, but instead let pyschopathic freaks push us down to ugly animalistic behaviors.

I really sympathize. Sorry you're having such a hard time C1---

I'm in a strange place these days too--
I giess we now have a society divided between the enlightened and despairing and the "happy idiots", (or not-happy idiots) who are just being acted upon powerfully by the malevolent forces unleashed upon us, as we've discussed often before. What comes to mind most strikingly now is (your previous mention of) Ross Ashby's (?) "Variety _?" , the program that throws humans into a confusion and shattering of consciousness by overloading their consciousness with Changes, and Events that hurtle forward continuously and which we humans find we cannot process...and are lost and desperate, So it's no wonder that you would be "sick of" dealing with people in this condition, si?

They really don't have a fighting chance though (and that includes me too) against this army of think tankers (Neuroscientists) who are thinking of new ways to debilitate and destroy any vestige of mental health in their targeted population -- us.

What to do? I don't have an answer....and don't think there is one other than Jacques Ellul's: have faith that God is there for us. (And for myself I add, and never give in or cease to object & fight them!)
But honestly, I am pretty near the end of my rope myself.

Later..
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PostSubject: Re: Jacques Ellul - In the Presence of the Kingdom   Sat 27 Apr 2013, 7:20 pm

ScoutsHonor wrote:
I really sympathize. Sorry you're having such a hard time C1---

I'm in a strange place these days too--
I giess we now have a society divided between the enlightened and despairing and the "happy idiots", (or not-happy idiots) who are just being acted upon powerfully by the malevolent forces unleashed upon us, as we've discussed often before. What comes to mind most strikingly now is (your previous mention of) Ross Ashby's (?) "Variety _?" , the program that throws humans into a confusion and shattering of consciousness by overloading their consciousness with Changes, and Events that hurtle forward continuously and which we humans find we cannot process...and are lost and desperate, So it's no wonder that you would be "sick of" dealing with people in this condition, si?

They really don't have a fighting chance though (and that includes me too) against this army of think tankers (Neuroscientists) who are thinking of new ways to debilitate and destroy any vestige of mental health in their targeted population -- us.

What to do? I don't have an answer....and don't think there is one other than Jacques Ellul's: have faith that God is there for us. (And for myself I add, and never give in or cease to object & fight them!)
But honestly, I am pretty near the end of my rope myself.

Later..
Yup, these people are being bombarded with an unimaginable assortment of weapons. Very nice reply.

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"For every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, there is one striking at the root."
David Thoreau (1817-1862)
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