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 Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power

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LindyLady

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PostSubject: Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski   Sun 25 Oct 2009, 9:30 pm

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LindyLady

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PostSubject: Re: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Sun 25 Oct 2009, 9:36 pm

One way to approach the definition of "Ponerize" is

"A person or society that has become distorted by pathological thinking."

Another excerpt that I can refer to, that I think matches Lobaczewski's
ponerization theory very well, is at min 52:00 of the Century of the
Self
, part 2:

"Social philosopher Herbert Marcuse's conclusion (early 60's) was anti-Freudian.

He said the desire to control people was wrong. that humans have
inner drives which in the majority aren't violently evil. Repression of
the individual by outer social authority leads to a schizophrenic
existence...conforming and submitting to the controller's society
repressing the self. Making them more dangerous than when left alone.

He switched the source of evil from the inner individual, to the
society which is corrupt. The sickness of society comes not from the
individual, but from the society itself (ie. 'it's controllers')"
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Extant

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PostSubject: Re: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Wed 25 Nov 2009, 8:33 pm

Damn good book. What do you think of Lobaczewski's use of the phrase "eugenic morality" in relation to methods to deal with individuals with the inherited character defects he describes?
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They Live

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PostSubject: Re: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Thu 26 Nov 2009, 12:45 am

Extant wrote:
Damn good book. What do you think of Lobaczewski's use of the phrase "eugenic morality" in relation to methods to deal with individuals with the inherited character defects he describes?
About a year ago I listened to Matterik address that point in his podcast, and I hope he sees this post so that he can chime in. But if I recall correctly, Matt's point was that this was a dangerous path, because as soon as one starts to talk about the morality of exterminating a group, irrespective of the justification, then we're walking down a road to self destruction.

I think we must retain our souls at all costs.
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PostSubject: Re: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Thu 26 Nov 2009, 5:04 am

I feel the same about this concept representing a dangerous path. Lobazewki kind of snuck it in as well, almost in passing...
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PostSubject: Re: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Thu 26 Nov 2009, 11:21 am

Extant wrote:
I feel the same about this concept representing a dangerous path. Lobazewki kind of snuck it in as well, almost in passing...
Well, the story is that the people at Red Pill Press worked with Lobaczewski to finish the book, which had been written two or three times earlier and destroyed or confiscated each time. My understanding is Lobaczewski was pretty old, and in bad health, when working with Red Pill. And after listening to that Laura Knight chick a few times on various podcasts, I've wondered whether we're getting all of the real Lobaczewski in that book.

By the way, Bob Hare, who wrote Snakes in Suits and has continued Lobaczewski's work, in a way, said in an interview a few years ago that they can now find psychopathic personalities by doing an MRI. I guess their brains are actually different. I recall that he said there is hope for treatment. So, perhaps we'll be able to handle this like any other medical condition in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Thu 26 Nov 2009, 3:39 pm

Yeah, I've been thinking that someone possibly interfered with the text. Possibly. It's hard to know for sure I guess.
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PostSubject: Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology: The Psychopathy of Power   Wed 10 Feb 2010, 1:13 pm

“When three “egos” govern – egoism, egotism, and egocentrism – the feeling of social links and responsibility toward others disappear, and the society in question splinters into groups ever more hostile to each other. When a hysterical environment stops differentiating the opinions of limited, not-quite-normal people from those of normal, reasonable persons, this opens the door for activation of the pathological factors of a various nature to enter in.” (Lobaczewski, 177)


"The actions of [pathocracy] affect an entire society, starting with the leaders and infiltrating every town, business, and institution. The pathological social structure gradually covers the entire country creating a “new class” within that nation. This privileged class [of pathocrats] feels permanently threatened by the “others”, i.e. by the majority of normal people. Neither do the pathocrats entertain any illusions about their personal fate should there be a return to the system of normal man." [Andrew M. Lobaczewski]



The Psychopathy of Power

They view us from a certain distance, like a para-specific variety. Natural human reactions -which often fail to elicit interest to normal people because they are considered self-evident - strike the psychopath as strange and, interesting, and even comical. They therefore observe us, deriving conclusions, forming their different world of concepts. They become experts in our weaknesses and sometimes effect heartless experiments. The suffering and injustice they cause inspire no guilt within them, since such reactions from others are simply a result of their being different and apply only to “those other” people they perceive to be not quite conspecific. Neither a normal person nor our natural world view can fully conceive nor properly evaluate the existence of this world of different concepts.


Excerpt from Chapter III:
Ponerology


Our natural world of concepts – based upon species instincts as described in an earlier chapter - strikes the psychopath as a nearly incomprehensible convention with no justification in their own psychological experience. They think that customs and principles of decency are a foreign convention invented and imposed by someone else, (“probably by priests”) silly, onerous, sometimes even ridiculous. At the same time, however, they easily perceive the deficiencies and weaknesses of our natural language of psychological and moral concepts in a manner somewhat reminiscent of the attitude of a contemporary psychologist — except in caricature.

The average intelligence of the psychopath, especially if measured via commonly used tests, is somewhat lower than that of normal people, albeit similarly variegated. Despite the wide variety of intelligence and interests, this group does not contain examples of the highest intelligence, nor do we find technical or craftsmanship talents among them. The most gifted members of this kind may thus achieve accomplishments in those sciences which do not require a correct humanistic world view or practical skills. (Academic decency is another matter, however.) Whenever we attempt to construct special tests to measure “life wisdom” or “socio-moral imagination”, even if the difficulties of psychometric evaluation are taken into account, individuals of this type indicate a deficit disproportionate to their personal IQ.

In spite of their deficiencies in normal psychological and moral knowledge, they develop and then have at their disposal a knowledge of their own, something lacked by people with a natural world view. They learn to recognize each other in a crowd as early as childhood, and they develop an awareness of the existence of other individuals similar to them. They also become conscious of being different from the world of those other people surrounding them. They view us from a certain distance, like a para-specific variety. Natural human reactions -which often fail to elicit interest to normal people because they are considered self-evident - strike the psychopath as strange and, interesting, and even comical. They therefore observe us, deriving conclusions, forming their different world of concepts. They become experts in our weaknesses and sometimes effect heartless experiments. The suffering and injustice they cause inspire no guilt within them, since such reactions from others are simply a result of their being different and apply only to “those other” people they perceive to be not quite conspecific. Neither a normal person nor our natural world view can fully conceive nor properly evaluate the existence of this world of different concepts.

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