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 Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?

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ArtificialThought

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PostSubject: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 3:36 am

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/12/google.china/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Google reports China-based attack, says pullout possible

Quote :
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Google said Tuesday the company and at least 20 others were victims of a "highly sophisticated and targeted attack" originating in China in mid-December, evidently to gain access to the e-mail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.

"Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective," according to a statement by David Drummond, senior vice president of corporate development and chief legal officer for Google, operator of the most popular Internet search engine.

Drummond said that as a result of the attacks, Google has decided it is no longer willing to consider censorship of its Google site in China and may have to shut down its site and its offices in that nation.

"These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered -- combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the Web -- have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China," Drummond wrote.

"We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all.

"We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China," Drummond's statement reads.

A Google spokesman said the targeted human rights activists were in the United States, Europe and China.

Efforts by CNN to reach the Chinese Embassy in Washington Tuesday evening were not successful.

Google, perhaps best known for its search engine, also provides other computer services, including e-mail, online mapping and social networking.

Good for them if this is true.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 5:05 am

I do not understand the linkage between an attempt to compromise the gmail accounts of activists in China, USA and Europe with censorship (or removal of censorshiop) of google.cn.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 12:22 pm

I think I'll look up info re who owns Google. My understanding, contrary to the pro-liberty stance in evidence here, is that they 'bend over' willingly whenever the gov't (our gov't) asks for private information on customers.......i.e. I do not trust them.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 12:54 pm

The CIA owns Google. But if you want a specific name, start with John Doerr, who is very well connected in DC and many political circles. It's a network!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 6:12 pm

IP wrote:
The CIA owns Google. But if you want a specific name, start with John Doerr, who is very well connected in DC and many political circles. It's a network!!!

Ahhhhh..! Part of the Full Information Dominance(?) network, I bet?! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 10:56 pm

ScoutsHonor wrote:
IP wrote:
The CIA owns Google. But if you want a specific name, start with John Doerr, who is very well connected in DC and many political circles. It's a network!!!

Ahhhhh..! Part of the Full Information Dominance(?) network, I bet?! Smile
Yes, it is at a hub of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Thu 14 Jan 2010, 12:26 am

Presumably they've got another agenda at work, and are again misrepresenting their goals. If I were to guess, I'd say they're planning to deprive their Chinese customers access to information -- Iow, the exact opposite of what they profess.

No surprise here, I know that lying is "what they do."
What DOES concern me is the continued freedom of our *own* internet access, and the contined existence of WWWS, a place very dear to my heart. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Thu 14 Jan 2010, 1:36 am

I'm not really sure I understand Google's "play" in China. I agree that one should look beneath the surface, I just don't have a handle right now on what that alterior goal might be.

As far as the Internet is concerned, I don't think they'll ever get rid of the greatest pursuasion and monitoring tool ever developed. It's at the heart of their feedback-control system. Talk about Internet closure is nothing more than fear mongering. It took 'em 50 years to build and model it before it was released, there is just no way in the world they will ever shackle this technological marvel.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Fri 15 Jan 2010, 4:13 am

Ah, yea I don't know why I had a thought something may have actually been done for human rights. Probably some emotional response in-the-moment.

There is more analysis on it now, and it seems as though the Chinese can wiretap Google's servers if they are physically located in China, and reverse engineer data transmission to gain access to user accounts, which, incidentally, the Department of Defense staff happen to use quite often. So they want to get rid of the liability.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Fri 15 Jan 2010, 10:51 am

IP wrote:
I'm not really sure I understand Google's "play" in China. I agree that one should look beneath the surface, I just don't have a handle right now on what that alterior goal might be.

As far as the Internet is concerned, I don't think they'll ever get rid of the greatest pursuasion and monitoring tool ever developed. It's at the heart of their feedback-control system. Talk about Internet closure is nothing more than fear mongering. It took 'em 50 years to build and model it before it was released, there is just no way in the world they will ever shackle this technological marvel.
Very glad to hear your viewpoint, IP. It would create a major "hole" in my life if I were to lose the Internet!!! It IS truly an amazing feat of mankind's--if only it could be used by the Good Guys rather than the bad guys, si?...
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Fri 15 Jan 2010, 3:10 pm

ArtificialThought wrote:
Ah, yea I don't know why I had a thought something may have actually been done for human rights. Probably some emotional response in-the-moment.

There is more analysis on it now, and it seems as though the Chinese can wiretap Google's servers if they are physically located in China, and reverse engineer data transmission to gain access to user accounts, which, incidentally, the Department of Defense staff happen to use quite often. So they want to get rid of the liability.
So, the real issue is over who has control of the slave population... the Chinese Gov't versus the Western Establishment. Now, that story makes sense to me.

You know, the U.S. middle-men based in Silicon Valley and NYC, who run so much of the technocracy, are not very bright when it comes to this kind of strategic thinking. They're prone to delusions of grandeur and magical thinking themselves, largely due to their manufactured material success and falsely developed egos. Hence, I think the Chinese are going to take these white turkeys to the cleaners by double crossing them, which is what we're seeing here.

I mean, what a stupid plan, we just turned over the worlds manufacturing base, military secrets and associated industry, and much of our technological infrastructure to these guys. We're talking about the Chinese government here, did Kissinger et al. really believe that these guys could be dealt with on the level when he was trying to set all this up during the Vietnam War? These guys are supposed to be brilliant, yet they are walking into the biggest trap ever, and they created it themselves.

I predict the Chinese are ultimately going to kick the Western Establishment's butt and takeover their position in the world. That's not what they had planned for by the way.

PS. In I.F. Stone's book on the Trial of Socrates, Stone says that the the 3-coups of Athens were all by a conspiracy of the aristocrats with key members of the middle class, and in each case the aristocrats double crossed the middle class when they thought they could, and that's why each coup failed for the middle class had to turn on the conspiracy and go back to democracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sat 16 Jan 2010, 5:10 pm

IP wrote:
I mean, what a stupid plan, we just turned over the worlds manufacturing base, military secrets and associated industry, and much of our technological infrastructure to these guys. We're talking about the Chinese government here, did Kissinger et al. really believe that these guys could be dealt with on the level when he was trying to set all this up during the Vietnam War? These guys are supposed to be brilliant, yet they are walking into the biggest trap ever, and they created it themselves.

There ought to be more to it than that. First, I don't think military secrets have been given away. I just can't see Raytheon or Lockheed Martin being moved to Beijing anytime soon. Let's stick to manufacturing. (Yes, Chinese military technology has improved over the years, but that's just a hallmark of communist government spending preferences.)

I realize the meme of "China taking over" and "wealth shifting East" is prevalent today. I've been thinking about it. So what if the Chinese will produce most of the automobiles in the world by 2015? What if by 2025 human labor will not even be necessary to make cars? What then?

The U.S. still has a monopoly on the world's academic system. Even now, why would a graduate student from China studying at MIT go back to China to earn 1/10 the amount he could make here? Still, even with the economic situation?

Let me sum it up. The idea here is that the next decades are coming in with new trillion-dollar technologies that will change the world even more than the 20th century has done. We will be creating a whole new universe of augmented reality, printing organs, reversing the aging process, and cleaning up China's pollution problems that result from their making of basic items for everyone else.

IP wrote:
I predict the Chinese are ultimately going to kick the Western Establishment's butt and takeover their position in the world. That's not what they had planned for by the way.

I will raise that bet.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sat 16 Jan 2010, 10:21 pm

ArtificialThought wrote:
I will raise that bet.

God help us all when they do.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sat 16 Jan 2010, 11:55 pm

ArtificialThought wrote:

First, I don't think military secrets have been given away. I just can't see Raytheon or Lockheed Martin being moved to Beijing anytime soon. Let's stick to manufacturing. (Yes, Chinese military technology has improved over the years, but that's just a hallmark of communist government spending preferences.)
It was called "ChinaGate".... I'll start a thread on it. Here's a quick clip...

"A nuclear weapons scientist, who has sought anonymity 'to keep my
position and keep supporting my family,' has informed NewsMax.com that
the Clinton administration has, in fact, aggressively sought to provide
China with some of the nation's most closely guarded nuclear weapons
technology."
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 1:39 am

Quote :
the Clinton administration has, in fact, aggressively sought to provide
China with some of the nation's most closely guarded nuclear weapons
technology.

Assuming that's true, why the hell would they do that?
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 8:32 am

[snip]
Quote :
Let me sum it up. The idea here is that the next decades are coming in with new trillion-dollar technologies that will change the world even more than the 20th century has done. We will be creating a whole new universe of augmented reality, printing organs, reversing the aging process, and cleaning up China's pollution problems that result from their making of basic items for everyone else.
I am wondering what is meant by "augmented reality" -an interesting phrase. Would you mind expanding on this? Thanks,

SH
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 2:13 pm

ArtificialThought wrote:
Quote :
the Clinton administration has, in fact, aggressively sought to provide
China with some of the nation's most closely guarded nuclear weapons
technology.

Assuming that's true, why the hell would they do that?
When's the last time the USA had a President who had more allegiance tot he USA than they did to the Int'l Cabal..... maybe JFK?
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 2:46 pm

ScoutsHonor wrote:
I am wondering what is meant by "augmented reality"

There's a science fiction book by Vernor Vinge called Rainbows End, which takes place in San Diego, 2025. It describes a world with virtual overlays. Basically it's the Internet all around you. People can wear a contact lens that projects anything over the reality you see. So you could have somebody take the form of an avatar and look like a different entity. You can have a normal field turned into a fantasy forest filled with creatures. Whatever you can imagine. Unlike virtual reality, it uses the real world as a foundation and builds stuff on top of that. Also there can be haptic technology that simulates touch when coming into contact with a projected virtual object.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_End

Quote :

This augmentation of reality is used for a variety of purposes:

* Commercial (large gaming areas sell gaming environments mixed with haptics)
* Functional (maintenance workers, for example, have access to a blueprint or schematic of practically any location or object in their responsibility area)
* Communication (characters in the novel use live video chat and can send "silent messages", an action known as "sming", through their Head-up displays built into the contact lenses)
* Medical (doctors have access to a patient's vital signs)


Last edited by ArtificialThought on Sun 17 Jan 2010, 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added Wiki description)
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 12:02 am

ArtificialThought wrote:
I will raise that bet.

And now I fold.

Had to give it a try...
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 2:50 am

ArtificialThought wrote:
ScoutsHonor wrote:
I am wondering what is meant by "augmented reality"

There's a science fiction book by Vernor Vinge called Rainbows End, which takes place in San Diego, 2025. It describes a world with virtual overlays. Basically it's the Internet all around you. People can wear a contact lens that projects anything over the reality you see. So you could have somebody take the form of an avatar and look like a different entity. You can have a normal field turned into a fantasy forest filled with creatures. Whatever you can imagine. Unlike virtual reality, it uses the real world as a foundation and builds stuff on top of that. Also there can be haptic technology that simulates touch when coming into contact with a projected virtual object.
Just think of a world where "Augmented Reality" (that they control) is omnipotent. It's Full Spectrum Control over our lives.

P.S. I gotta check out that book!
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 10:43 am

What a Face

Talk about bad news! Geez...
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Tue 19 Jan 2010, 1:45 am

Some thoughts:

I've been pondering this a bit, and I don't see much difference between living in an 'Augmented Reality' environment and seriously toying with insanity. (Toying if you're lucky; if not lucky, then you'd just stay insane.) The entire society would also be insane, since no-one would be able to distinguish the real from the imaginery, yet people would be responding to stimuli that for each of them would be different. Thus, while one person might be wearing a hat, another person might be taking a bite out of it because in HIS world it was an *apple*. You can see what I mean, I think...

This is EXTREMELY reminiscent of The Matrix, of course.

P.S. It also reminds me of "Brazil", in that the tortured hero *escapes* his torturers by going blissfully insane, and we the audience feel a certain relief for him (well, speaking for myself, that is.) Most interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Tue 19 Jan 2010, 3:35 am

IP wrote:
Just think of a world where "Augmented Reality" (that they control) is omnipotent. It's Full Spectrum Control over our lives.

They already have full spectrum control of the Internet, and that's where we increasingly spend more of our lives. What's the difference? At least the eye candy will be cooler!

ScoutsHonor wrote:
Thus, while one person might be wearing a hat, another person might be taking a bite out of it because in HIS world it was an *apple*.

No it will be synchronized. I mean, a person from China *can* talk "Chinese" to a person from the U.S., while the American talks back in English, but that doesn't normally happen.

Also you can just go to a different area if you don't like somebody's or some group's part of the augmented reality.

ScoutsHonor wrote:
This is EXTREMELY reminiscent of The Matrix, of course.

The Matrix is about virtual reality. We will have that as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Google to stop censorship of Chinese web searches?   Tue 19 Jan 2010, 11:10 am

To use one of their expressions, I am of the opinon at this poin, that such a world would not be sustainable.
This requires a lot more thought but at this juncture I'd wager a lot that the society would collapse, because the people, the community, would all become mentally unbalanced, and *quickly* too.

What else can one expect from the power-mad? i.e. the fruit of insane people would inevitably be insane programs, no?

bbl
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